Brandywell Stadium Development

[magspat]

Speaking to workman on site 2 weeks ago he said they have to have the site finished by the end of January ,but he thinks might not meet the dead line ,he said there is a lot of pipe work to do after the stand is finished but he hoped it won't be too long after that.

[stevebradley]

Latest update

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18rsAh3Mcg/

Wow. Looks the part. Just might be ready come late February!?

They're talking middle of 2025.

Who's talking - taximen ?

[brandyball]

Wow. Looks the part. Just might be ready come late February!?

They're talking middle of 2025.

Who's talking - taximen ?

No, your friends on Derry City Fan's Forum.

[brandyball]

New Photo

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Ebbgxu73C/

[roger diesel]

Rail seating usually has been on the basis of a 1:1 ratio for sitting and standing areas (as per Celtic Park) so are Derry adopting a new approach to allow an increased standing capacity (I read somewhere it was going to be 2700 vs 1850 seated)? Would be interesting to hear the detail if anyone has it!

[marcoloco]

Rail seating usually has been on the basis of a 1:1 ratio for sitting and standing areas (as per Celtic Park) so are Derry adopting a new approach to allow an increased standing capacity (I read somewhere it was going to be 2700 vs 1850 seated)? Would be interesting to hear the detail if anyone has it!

That is the detail.

You fit more in standing up.

European fixtures require the seating hence why it’s been added.

I suspect you see both options being used through your the seasons depending on the competition and opponent

[roger diesel]

I've managed to grasp the concept of being able to fit more in standing up, Marco, it's not rocket science.
The question is how, in terms of structural detail, and legislative changes, the club have managed to achieve this. Relatively recent safe-standing installations have been limited to a 'one seat = one standing position' ratio (Parkhead for instance) while the numbers provided for us indicate a ratio of 1 seated : 1.46 standing. Wider spaces between rows, additional intermediate step, specific seat / rail design? Just a technical query really, if any other nerds out there have actual knowledge of the proposal.

[brendanp]

Rail seating usually has been on the basis of a 1:1 ratio for sitting and standing areas (as per Celtic Park) so are Derry adopting a new approach to allow an increased standing capacity (I read somewhere it was going to be 2700 vs 1850 seated)? Would be interesting to hear the detail if anyone has it!

I'm more interested in how they're gonna fit 1850 seats Into a stand that is approximately the same width and two thirds the height of the Mark Farren stand, that holds 950 seats.
Sitting or standing people are the same width. One step required for each person standing, then do we require 2 steps for each seat (1350seats) or 3 steps (900 seats).

[roger diesel]

Rail seating usually has been on the basis of a 1:1 ratio for sitting and standing areas (as per Celtic Park) so are Derry adopting a new approach to allow an increased standing capacity (I read somewhere it was going to be 2700 vs 1850 seated)? Would be interesting to hear the detail if anyone has it!

I'm more interested in how they're gonna fit 1850 seats Into a stand that is approximately the same width and two thirds the height of the Mark Farren stand, that holds 950 seats.
Sitting or standing people are the same width. One step required for each person standing, then do we require 2 steps for each seat (1350seats) or 3 steps (900 seats).

I had a look at the Planning Portal, and compared both stands. The Mark Farren is designed to be 108m long, but only 46m of it has been constructed. The new stand will be 71m long, so 1.5 times the length of the MF. MF is 5.46m from bottom to top row, while new stand is 4.25m. MF has 13 rows of seats, with large risers (steps) between each row while the new stand will have 24 risers spaced more like normal steps. No detail on the type of seating / barriers or rails for the new stand or plan of the proposed seating layout. Interesting to see how the numbers stated will be achieved if the new stand is 1.5 times the length of the as-built MF (currently 955 seats). 955 x 1.5 = 1433, well short of the 1850 seats stated for the new stand.

[rodgers]

Happy to be corrected as my knowledge is limited on this but is the seat standing ratio not explained by the fact for domestic standing games, you don't have to adhere to the ratios? That ony becomes an issue for European games which are going to have seating.

The separate issue then is in relation to how all the seats can fit in the stand. Am I right that there will be no stairwells in the middles of the stand itself? I would be surprised it that was case. The answer may well be in the drawings on the planning portal which I haven't looked at in a while.

[roger diesel]

Can't post images any more here, used to be that function -anyway from the portal drawings there are 5 access stairs from the front of the terrace up to the back, one at each end and 3 evenly spaced between. 12.7m between each, roughly.

[rodgers]

That's what I thought, the most recent pictures made me think that wasn't the case, unless the stairwells are added later.

In any event, it looks like the seats are going to have be smaller and narrower than the Mark Farren stand in order to achieve the number of seats they are claiming.

The other thing that strikes me is that rails for seat/standing require space in which might reduce the ability get more people in when the seats are upright. Normal terracing doesn't usually have long rails across every single row.

We might just have to wait and see.

[stevebradley]

Happy to be corrected as my knowledge is limited on this but is the seat standing ratio not explained by the fact for domestic standing games, you don't have to adhere to the ratios? That ony becomes an issue for European games which are going to have seating.

The separate issue then is in relation to how all the seats can fit in the stand. Am I right that there will be no stairwells in the middles of the stand itself? I would be surprised it that was case. The answer may well be in the drawings on the planning portal which I haven't looked at in a while.

The stand seems to be front-loading. I would've thought rear loading in from the street would've made sense - with a circulation area at the back instead of a void as the plans seem to show - but I'm sure there's a reason why the design is as it is. My big worry about it all is that the disabled seats are yet again at the very bottom of the stand - as they are in the MF Stand. Because they just don't work in that location at the MF, where our most vulnerable supporters end up completely exposed to the elements and with the worst view of the games. In my view supporters with disabilities should always be located up high and well under shelter. The front-loading nature of the new stand obviously mans that can't happen. But I hope at the very least that the roof cover will extend much further out than it does in the Mark Farren, as it just isn'ty good enough there.

On the numbers, I share the suprise at the claimed capacity for the new stand. But we have to assume that the architects know what they're doing. The council and blue light services will presumably have to sign-off the new stand and license it for a certain number of people - so they will have the final word on actual capacity.

[marcoloco]

The void under the stand will be an ancillary commercial unit and there’s good reason the disabled fans are catered for at ground level… regarding exposure to the elements all fans in that stand will get soaked if it rains.

The sheets of rain come in from the showground end. We’ll need to wait for the South stand before that issue is resolved.

[stevebradley]

The void under the stand will be an ancillary commercial unit and there’s good reason the disabled fans are catered for at ground level… regarding exposure to the elements all fans in that stand will get soaked if it rains.

The sheets of rain come in from the showground end. We’ll need to wait for the South stand before that issue is resolved.

What's the reason for putting people with physical disabilities in the location with the worst view & the most weather exposure? And what was the reason for doing so in the MF Stand?

[rodgers]

Thanks for that.

Roger Diesel, I think I completely misread one of your posts. Apologies.

[marcoloco]

The void under the stand will be an ancillary commercial unit and there’s good reason the disabled fans are catered for at ground level… regarding exposure to the elements all fans in that stand will get soaked if it rains.

The sheets of rain come in from the showground end. We’ll need to wait for the South stand before that issue is resolved.

What's the reason for putting people with physical disabilities in the location with the worst view & the most weather exposure? And what was the reason for doing so in the MF Stand?

A mix of design cost & health and safety.

[stevebradley]

The void under the stand will be an ancillary commercial unit and there’s good reason the disabled fans are catered for at ground level… regarding exposure to the elements all fans in that stand will get soaked if it rains.

The sheets of rain come in from the showground end. We’ll need to wait for the South stand before that issue is resolved.

What's the reason for putting people with physical disabilities in the location with the worst view & the most weather exposure? And what was the reason for doing so in the MF Stand?

A mix of design cost & health and safety.

Design is whatever is chosen. There is nothing intrinsic to the design of a stand that says you HAVE to put wheelchairs in the worst possible location for both view and weather. I don't buy the health and saftey arguement without specifics either I'm afraid, as that is usually trotted out as an excuse. I've seen other new build stands in NI where disabled fans have a specific area at the back for themselves, where they receive a better view and better protection from the elements (e.g. Newry City). Obviously that requires access - but we have a lift to the back of the Mark Farren, yet still put wheelchair users down at the front in the rain & with their view obscured.

The Mark Farren Stand design that made sense on paper turned out in reality to be a bit of a turkey - e.g. also the fact that there is no cover for the team dugouts at the front. So design mistakes clearly can and do happen re stands.

It's too late now for the 3 stands we have at the Brandywell, but if we ever do a 4th it should be used as an opportunity to ideally address this issue - or at the very least not repeat the mistakes of the past yet again. IMO supporters with disabilities should be a higher priority for the club, and not seemingly an after-thought or just doing the legal bare minimum. There but for the grace of god go all of us re disabilities. And as we age, our time in those crap disabled spaces will surely come if we manage to live long enough.

[marcoloco]

What's the reason for putting people with physical disabilities in the location with the worst view & the most weather exposure? And what was the reason for doing so in the MF Stand?

A mix of design cost & health and safety.

Design is whatever is chosen. There is nothing intrinsic to the design of a stand that says you HAVE to put wheelchairs in the worst possible location for both view and weather. I don't buy the health and saftey arguement without specifics either I'm afraid, as that is usually trotted out as an excuse. I've seen other new build stands in NI where disabled fans have a specific area at the back for themselves, where they receive a better view and better protection from the elements (e.g. Newry City). Obviously that requires access - but we have a lift to the back of the Mark Farren, yet still put wheelchair users down at the front in the rain & with their view obscured.

The Mark Farren Stand design that made sense on paper turned out in reality to be a bit of a turkey - e.g. also the fact that there is no cover for the team dugouts at the front. So design mistakes clearly can and do happen re stands.

It's too late now for the 3 stands we have at the Brandywell, but if we ever do a 4th it should be used as an opportunity to ideally address this issue - or at the very least not repeat the mistakes of the past yet again. IMO supporters with disabilities should be a higher priority for the club, and not seemingly an after-thought or just doing the legal bare minimum. There but for the grace of god go all of us re disabilities. And as we age, our time in those crap disabled spaces will surely come if we manage to live long enough.

Steve your talking as if disabled fans have been intentionally excluded or treated in a manner that’s disrespectful to them or their needs.

The reality is costs is a big factor. It needs to be considered at the design stage. It’s also more than accessibility. Once in the stand you then need space to manoeuvre. So spatial requirements do come into it as does access outside of the stand. And then what happens if there’s an incident and a need to evacuate the stand at short notice?

The reality is unless it’s a big stadium, with a big design budget, lots of space, and an abundance of safety staff on duty it’s not practical.

It’s doable yes but it’s not practical especially at our level. The brief will also be to maximise capacity and the regulations then tell you what percentage of your capacity must be suitable for disabled spectators. It’s not an afterthought or a fudge.

Those with disabilities and mobility issues need time, space and support to move around. Others have a wide spectrum of needs.

Before jumping in with righteous comments have you actually spoken to those groups with disabilities? Where do they prefer to be, where do they feel safest? I’m not sure they’ll agree with your opinion that their pitch side facilities and viewing areas are crap or ill-conceived.

[roger diesel]

Marco, I sit a few rows back from the disabled section in the Mark Farren, they regularly get soaked. No one would prefer that. There is also a resident oik directly behind them who insists on banging the metal panel every time Derry get as much as a throw in in the opposition half - you can see on the latest photo of hte new stand on the facebook post that the panel is actually now hanging off! That can't be pleasant for them either.
I thought when I saw the plans for the new stand there was a missed opportunity to access from street level at the Lone Moor / Bluebell corner which would have facilitated a rear disabled section, as per the main stand in Celtic park up the road - wheelchair spaces along the back rows. Too late now for the new stand but perhaps the extended Mark Farren, if we ever get it, could be adapted to take out the back two or three rows in a block, with lift access or level access at the Bluebell corner, But that's for another day.
Rodgers, no worries, not sure what you misread, no need to apologise! Though the ability to keep discussion civil and on track is often lost on some here...!