The Title

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PauliAlonso
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Re: The Title

Post by PauliAlonso »

stevebradley wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2024 12:01 am
PauliAlonso wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:23 am
Keyser Soze wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:02 am Did POD not say that he would like to see us regularly in group stages of Europe? Maybe it was someone else and I'm misquoting him.

But if he did say it, then we won't be able to play group games at home for many many years with the development that would be necessary at the ground to pass all the checklist.
Yes, he did say that. But three years ago when Higgins was unveiled. I think this season has been an eye-opener, in regard to what is genuinely possible and sustainable at the club.
I think you're just projecting your own (rather negative) thoughts onto POD's intentiions here, Pauli.

He's no mug, and he understands full well the nature of our supporters (which again, I think you're being unfairly negative about).
Again I repeat - we're going for a double and fans are staying away. And if that's the choice of a certain section of supporter, that's fine - no-one should be forced or expected to go. But it raises a huge issue when it comes to the future and the sustainability of the club. If you're the Council and POD comes to you and says "I want to some land at Templemore, access to this, this and this grant, to build a new stadium"...you, as the Council, ask, "You're going for a league and cup double but can't sellout the 3500-capacity Brandywell, why should we even consider a 6-7,000 seater venue and all that goes with it?"

If you're answer is that the quality of football isn't great, then you can forget about anything else. If the solution to the club's future relies on sexy football and winning leagues, we're done. Not because there's anything wrong with wanting that, but because it's entirely unrealistic over a longer period of time (=unsustainable). The history of the LOI says a team will put the money in, be at the top for 4-5 years, then shit itself and go out of business - Shels, Cork, Dundalk and, yes, ourselves, have all been there (Pats and Bohs too to a lesser extent in the past). In the wider football context, I know of only one manager in world football who can guarantee sexy football and titles, and that's Pep. This season has shown that our bandwagon needs sexy football and titles or it won't show up. That's not sustainable long term, therefore we need to reevaluate the potential of the club in the city. And as of now, that potential doesn't warrant a new stadium. You're right, POD's not a mug and I reckon he knows this already.

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Marty
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Re: The Title

Post by Marty »

We are not going for a double. We have thrown away he easiest league title the world has ever seen.

We won't finish in the top two in a 1 horse race.

Keyser Soze
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Re: The Title

Post by Keyser Soze »

Let's get one thing straight, the league title won't be lost tomorrow night if we draw or lose.

It was lost last weekend.

PauliAlonso
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Re: The Title

Post by PauliAlonso »

Well. That's that. Was fun while it lasted.

Mistakes made in the summer. Higgins' transfers have been - in the main - quite good, but we messed up this time. Had to let players go to free up some budget and those who left would probably have done a much better job than those who came in. Hampered by injures again this season, although not as bad as previous years. People will point to lots of things for why it didn't happen (or one person :lol: ) but football is also about moments, and McMullan hitting the post against Bohs was massive. He can't miss that; we're still in for the league if he scores.

Probably in the minority here, but hoping for a better season again next year under Ruaidhri.

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Marty
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Re: The Title

Post by Marty »

what on earth was fun about this season?

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Re: The Title

Post by Keyser Soze »

I think you are in the minority @paulialonso.

Starting next season with RH in charge would be a major mistake imho.

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Re: The Title

Post by marcoloco »

PauliAlonso wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 10:30 am Well. That's that. Was fun while it lasted.

Mistakes made in the summer. Higgins' transfers have been - in the main - quite good, but we messed up this time. Had to let players go to free up some budget and those who left would probably have done a much better job than those who came in. Hampered by injures again this season, although not as bad as previous years. People will point to lots of things for why it didn't happen (or one person :lol: ) but football is also about moments, and McMullan hitting the post against Bohs was massive. He can't miss that; we're still in for the league if he scores.

Probably in the minority here, but hoping for a better season again next year under Ruaidhri.
Probably.... :lol:

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Greengo
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Re: The Title

Post by Greengo »

When Higgins came in, 2021, he inherited a team built by Devine. I think we were in the bottom half of the table when he took over but by luck we qualified for Europe on the back of St. Pats winning the cup.
In his first full season, 2022, we finished runners up, had a couple of rounds in Europe and won the FAI Cup and qualified for Europe again
In his second full season, 2023, we finished runners up, had a great run in Europe, just missing out on league qualification on penalties and qualified for Europe again
In his third full season, currently 2024, had a miserable European experience, huffed and puffed at the business end of the table and has taken us to a cup final again. We could qualify for Europe depending on our league position or failing that by winning the cup...

If you weigh that up, you could say that it has been a decent return for someone in his first managerial stint...

Now before you start getting on to me for sticking up for him etc etc... I disagree on some of his signings, I think there are players at the club who shouldnt be, and if reports are true our wage bill suggests we should be doing better than what we have achieved... I hate the fact that Dundalk have been a kind of feeder club for us over the years (Fats, Duffy, Patching, Hoban, Kelly), signing a promising centre half who got hardly any game time or repetitive central partner and then sending him out on loan to bring in Wisdom... Sigining a midfielder who took an age to get fit and was then played at full back and has hardly featured, yet a local lad was loaned out to Coleraine and always wore his heart on his sleeve when he played and seeing a player start every game this season who cannot make a 5 yard pass or hit an empty net but on occasion makes a decent cross (you all know who I mean)
A player who was linked with a move to Rovers during the summer and whose head doesnt seem to be in Derry anymore...

you get the drift...

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Re: The Title

Post by brandyball »

Dose of Reality

"Derry City 'slit our own throats' in title"
https://www.derryjournal.com/sport/foot ... in%20title

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Re: The Title

Post by Keyser Soze »

When I think back to watching last night's game, strangely I wasn't heartbroken when the final whistle went.

I think we have been conditioned this season to get used to failure. To bottling it when we need to capitalise. I guess I just didn't have much expectation before the game started, and that tempered any disappointment?

Many of us have been saying it for months, that this team wouldn't win the league. And so it has come to be. I know some will try to put a positive spin on the season, but for me a cup final victory will be a poor prize for what should have been a title winning season.

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Re: The Title

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Greengo wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:00 pm When Higgins came in, 2021, he inherited a team built by Devine. I think we were in the bottom half of the table when he took over but by luck we qualified for Europe on the back of St. Pats winning the cup.
In his first full season, 2022, we finished runners up, had a couple of rounds in Europe and won the FAI Cup and qualified for Europe again
In his second full season, 2023, we finished runners up, had a great run in Europe, just missing out on league qualification on penalties and qualified for Europe again
In his third full season, currently 2024, had a miserable European experience, huffed and puffed at the business end of the table and has taken us to a cup final again. We could qualify for Europe depending on our league position or failing that by winning the cup...

If you weigh that up, you could say that it has been a decent return for someone in his first managerial stint...

Now before you start getting on to me for sticking up for him etc etc... I disagree on some of his signings, I think there are players at the club who shouldnt be, and if reports are true our wage bill suggests we should be doing better than what we have achieved... I hate the fact that Dundalk have been a kind of feeder club for us over the years (Fats, Duffy, Patching, Hoban, Kelly), signing a promising centre half who got hardly any game time or repetitive central partner and then sending him out on loan to bring in Wisdom... Sigining a midfielder who took an age to get fit and was then played at full back and has hardly featured, yet a local lad was loaned out to Coleraine and always wore his heart on his sleeve when he played and seeing a player start every game this season who cannot make a 5 yard pass or hit an empty net but on occasion makes a decent cross (you all know who I mean)
A player who was linked with a move to Rovers during the summer and whose head doesnt seem to be in Derry anymore...

you get the drift...
Agree with much of that but what is interesting is that many of his transfer decisions (players in/out) have hurt us badly. Weakened us. Then you realise the team he has now... this is 'his' team that he's moulded after 3 years whereas that early success he did it with Devine's team.

I think he lost the dressing room a long time ago. Performances have been abject for 9 months. Players don't look motivated and there's nothing fresh or innovative in our play. It's the same thing week in week out.

I just can't see any way back for him now. Cup win or not. Would you hand him your transfer kitty for another season based on the decisions made in recent years including releasing B. Kavenagh and others you've mentioned?

I just think the sooner he departs the better for all concerned.

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Greengo
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Re: The Title

Post by Greengo »

Theres others that need the door shown to them too... Bring absolutely nothing to the table

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barry
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Re: The Title

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Greengo wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:47 pm Theres others that need the door shown to them too... Bring absolutely nothing to the table
Players? Staff? Or both.?

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Re: The Title

Post by marcoloco »

Greengo wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:47 pm Theres others that need the door shown to them too... Bring absolutely nothing to the table
Then there was the whole issue about his assistant. Not sure Hegarty was the right choice when the dust settled and this maybe highlighted, once again, his limitations.

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Re: The Title

Post by magspat »

I asked POD a question at the AGM would money be available to Higgns in the July transfer window,he said only if the right player became available ,there I rest my case.

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Re: The Title

Post by Keyser Soze »

Can't even imagine the amount of money we have p1ssed away on the likes of Wisdom, Davenport, Robertson, McMullan, Idehen, Kelly.

Must be a huge amount. All journeymen who should be shown the door.

All the management team need to go too.

And the Board needs to take a good look at itself. Is it ruthless enough to make this club successful? I don't think so, when it didn't take the decision to change manager after the humiliating loss to the Magpies. Time maybe some of them stepped aside too?

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Greengo
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Re: The Title

Post by Greengo »

Keyser Soze wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 1:24 pm Can't even imagine the amount of money we have p1ssed away on the likes of Wisdom, Davenport, Robertson, McMullan, Idehen, Kelly.

Must be a huge amount. All journeymen who should be shown the door.

All the management team need to go too.

And the Board needs to take a good look at itself. Is it ruthless enough to make this club successful? I don't think so, when it didn't take the decision to change manager after the humiliating loss to the Magpies. Time maybe some of them stepped aside too?
Out of those you mentioned only Robertson looks promising from what we've seen of him.

Wisdom... too old and always guaranteed yellow card
Davenport... been here ages but seen very little of him. Looks a decent player but seems too injury prone
McMullan... Starts every game but cant make a simple pass and could have sealed the league had he scored in the three consecutive games he missed in... Think Mark Farren, Liam Coyle or Gary Beckett in those situations? Only one outcome... goal
Idehen... Looked nervous last night... doesnt bode well
Kelly... touted as our wing wizard answer when he came in at the start of the season... One goal all season (If you need reminding it was against Drogheda at home)... one fucking goal... Even McMullan has more ffs

IfYouTolerateThis
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Re: The Title

Post by IfYouTolerateThis »

Greengo wrote: Sat Oct 26, 2024 12:00 pm When Higgins came in, 2021, he inherited a team built by Devine. I think we were in the bottom half of the table when he took over but by luck we qualified for Europe on the back of St. Pats winning the cup.
In his first full season, 2022, we finished runners up, had a couple of rounds in Europe and won the FAI Cup and qualified for Europe again
In his second full season, 2023, we finished runners up, had a great run in Europe, just missing out on league qualification on penalties and qualified for Europe again
In his third full season, currently 2024, had a miserable European experience, huffed and puffed at the business end of the table and has taken us to a cup final again. We could qualify for Europe depending on our league position or failing that by winning the cup...

If you weigh that up, you could say that it has been a decent return for someone in his first managerial stint...

Now before you start getting on to me for sticking up for him etc etc... I disagree on some of his signings, I think there are players at the club who shouldnt be, and if reports are true our wage bill suggests we should be doing better than what we have achieved... I hate the fact that Dundalk have been a kind of feeder club for us over the years (Fats, Duffy, Patching, Hoban, Kelly), signing a promising centre half who got hardly any game time or repetitive central partner and then sending him out on loan to bring in Wisdom... Sigining a midfielder who took an age to get fit and was then played at full back and has hardly featured, yet a local lad was loaned out to Coleraine and always wore his heart on his sleeve when he played and seeing a player start every game this season who cannot make a 5 yard pass or hit an empty net but on occasion makes a decent cross (you all know who I mean)
A player who was linked with a move to Rovers during the summer and whose head doesnt seem to be in Derry anymore...

you get the drift...
For all Higgins achievements, the football has been brutal the past 6 months.

When folk don't turn up to sit in their seats that are paid for at the start of the season, I think that should be the starting point for deciding how good or bad he has done. Because there are many who turn up precisely because they've already paid for their seat. Not because of the fare that's on show.

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barry
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Re: The Title

Post by barry »

On paper Higgins has been reasonably successful with a club that has been largely unsuccessful for 30+ years excluding the odd cup win. However given the budget he has been provided with, calibre of players signed and overall conservative approach his tenure has been has been mediocre at best.

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Re: The Title

Post by magspat »

Football is played on grass not on paper.

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