Derry City "V" FCB Magpies - 11-07-2024

[Nige92]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. DC flew out on 10th July, the day before. Magpies are here already. Preparation an issue for the result away in Gib?

Over playing in the Foyle cup. Word is they lost to the u17s

[kitwe]

Much and all as I want to win every game perhaps Europe is a distraction from the league as has been the case recently.
It'll be a disgrace if we lose tomorrow night but we still stand a chance with the league.
That is IF we beat Shels!!

[PauliAlonso]

Winning the league is way more important to this club than anything except possibly group stages of Europe.....

The length of time we've gone without a league title is unacceptable....

I was thinking about this recently but in a slightly different context - still applies here though, I think.....

Why is there almost an expectation that we "should" be winning the league? I get that the club and fans "want" to win the league, that's normal. But there's almost this obsession from our end that we "should" be winning it or "should" be challenging every season.

We joined the league in 85 (almost 40 years ago) and we've won the league TWICE. We won it last in 1997 and since then only two managers have brought us a 2nd place finish - Stephen Kenny and Higgins. Kenny's finishes were very close, so "proper" title challenges (for want of a better term). Higgins finished 2nd to Rovers both times (closing the points gap each year) but by the end, far enough away for them to not really be considered proper challenges IMO. So four 2nd place finishes in 27 years and only two that went down to the wire. Why do we think we should be consistently challenging for league titles? "And if you know your history"...we're a cup team. Not a league-winning or league-challenging team.

Then knowing this and our history in the league, we put this expectation on a young manager in his first senior job and then give him a supposed 3 year limit to get it done - what others have failed to do for over 25 years?! Up against a mammoth Rovers side and closing the gap each year, to overtaking them in Year 3. He should be sacked?? Complaints about his style of play are subjective. Decky's football was dire and got us nowhere (except on the path to relegation). Higgins' style is what it is, but we're still fighting for the league.

[Nige92]

A thoughtful post Paulo. I suspect there's a number of reasons why expectations have been raised:

1) The statement made by the manager and chairman when Higgins first arrived about aiming to win the league within 3 years

2) The wealth of our owner leads to people feeling that he has the ability to invest significant money into the team and therefore making us a challenger. Budgets usually equate to league position.

3) Signings of Duffy, Fats, Connolly, Hoban etc were 'win now' moves. They aren't moves you make when your aim is to just challenge for European positions.

4) The FAI Cup win

5) The strength of the league has given us the opportunity to challenge for the past few seasons, Rovers have been the only other team likely to win. In those seasons they've given us opportunity to overtake them... Which we've failed to take advantage of.

6) There are a lot of Johnny come lately fans who likely have teams in England and are used to winning and/or sacking managers who fail to deliver a league.

If sure there are other reasons and each supporter will have their own

[footman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/ar ... 0yk2nz4q5o

[marcoloco]

St Pats are through to the third qualifying round of the UEFA Conference League. They will lift a small fortune (behind only Rovers this season despite their lowly league position) and it will cover a lot of the player investment they've made in recent weeks. Good for the league overall as it brings with it an ounce of credibility after what happened to us v Bruno's Bar. Pats have done well to entice a few former players back from England too which is good to see as it will lift standards. They'll need to make the most of it though as its unlikely they'll be in Europe next season unless they sneak 4th.

So where will our new signings come from? Is there former players that you would entice back or are we on the lookout for bargains and out of contract players looking for a contract. Is there anyone in the IPL that would improve us or are we unlikely to splash any cash after the beating on the rock?

[brandyball]

St Pats are through to the third qualifying round of the UEFA Conference League. They will lift a small fortune (behind only Rovers this season despite their lowly league position) and it will cover a lot of the player investment they've made in recent weeks. Good for the league overall as it brings with it an ounce of credibility after what happened to us v Bruno's Bar. Pats have done well to entice a few former players back from England too which is good to see as it will lift standards. They'll need to make the most of it though as its unlikely they'll be in Europe next season unless they sneak 4th.

So where will our new signings come from? Is there former players that you would entice back or are we on the lookout for bargains and out of contract players looking for a contract. Is there anyone in the IPL that would improve us or are we unlikely to splash any cash after the beating on the rock?

Probably depends who our Manager is next season.

[Nige92]

By the sounds of it the manager has a significant role in the transfer dealings at the club. If he leaves at the end of the season, there'll be no one to make decisions around players coming in or new contracts being given. Club structures need to change!

Joshua Daniels and Rory Holden at TNS are two players I wonder could we get. Two Derry lads playing in the Welsh league. I know TNS often get Champions League money by virtue of winning the league every year but surely wages couldn't be out of reach?

On the Derry Journal podcast they spoke about us being hampered by Brexit, being unable to bring in oversees players so we rely on UK and Ireland as our main sources.

[marcoloco]

By the sounds of it the manager has a significant role in the transfer dealings at the club. If he leaves at the end of the season, there'll be no one to make decisions around players coming in or new contracts being given. Club structures need to change!

Joshua Daniels and Rory Holden at TNS are two players I wonder could we get. Two Derry lads playing in the Welsh league. I know TNS often get Champions League money by virtue of winning the league every year but surely wages couldn't be out of reach?

On the Derry Journal podcast they spoke about us being hampered by Brexit, being unable to bring in oversees players so we rely on UK and Ireland as our main sources.

Two very talented players. Is Holden there on loan from another Club? Recall he left us for Bristol Rovers. Forgot about both these lads but that's the type of signings that would lift the spirits. Always surprises me that we don't sign more players from IPL sides.

[stevebradley]

Winning the league is way more important to this club than anything except possibly group stages of Europe.....

The length of time we've gone without a league title is unacceptable....

I was thinking about this recently but in a slightly different context - still applies here though, I think.....

Why is there almost an expectation that we "should" be winning the league? I get that the club and fans "want" to win the league, that's normal. But there's almost this obsession from our end that we "should" be winning it or "should" be challenging every season.

We joined the league in 85 (almost 40 years ago) and we've won the league TWICE. We won it last in 1997 and since then only two managers have brought us a 2nd place finish - Stephen Kenny and Higgins. Kenny's finishes were very close, so "proper" title challenges (for want of a better term). Higgins finished 2nd to Rovers both times (closing the points gap each year) but by the end, far enough away for them to not really be considered proper challenges IMO. So four 2nd place finishes in 27 years and only two that went down to the wire. Why do we think we should be consistently challenging for league titles? "And if you know your history"...we're a cup team. Not a league-winning or league-challenging team.

Then knowing this and our history in the league, we put this expectation on a young manager in his first senior job and then give him a supposed 3 year limit to get it done - what others have failed to do for over 25 years?! Up against a mammoth Rovers side and closing the gap each year, to overtaking them in Year 3. He should be sacked?? Complaints about his style of play are subjective. Decky's football was dire and got us nowhere (except on the path to relegation). Higgins' style is what it is, but we're still fighting for the league.

Have only just seen this Paolo.

Higgins was brought in to win the league, and to do so within 3yrs. No-one can argue that that hasn't been clear since the very start.

If he's not the person who can do that, then sobeit. Time for him to move on so we can recruit someone else who will.

No Derry City manager has ever had as much money to play with as Higgins has over the last 3yrs. And Rovers are a pale reflection this year of what they've been the last few years.

We're paying a mannager to win the league for us. If he's not up to the task, if it's too soon for him etc - fair enough. But then we thank him for his efforts and we find someone else who will win the league for us. That's football.

[marcoloco]

Rovers progress in Europe securing E3.2M in the process... Pats progress and secure E1.3M in the process showing instant return on their decision to award Kenny a 5 year bumper contract. So important for the league that Irish team do well in Europe as is pushes up the co-efficient and ensures that money will find its way back into the league. Even Shelbourne secured a windfall this season and got through a round. Clear to see where the money is and no amount of league titles and FAI Cups compensates. Also, these results by the big Dublin teams prove what its possible and only serves to highlight our own shortcomings on the pitch.

[mokendismucker]

Rovers progress in Europe securing E3.2M in the process... Pats progress and secure E1.3M in the process showing instant return on their decision to award Kenny a 5 year bumper contract. So important for the league that Irish team do well in Europe as is pushes up the co-efficient and ensures that money will find its way back into the league. Even Shelbourne secured a windfall this season and got through a round. Clear to see where the money is and no amount of league titles and FAI Cups compensates. Also, these results by the big Dublin teams prove what its possible and only serves to highlight our own shortcomings on the pitch.

But the thing is Shams have to win the league to get that route again. Winning the league is the key. So now the standard of our league isn’t so crap as some contributors here w**k on about because there is no outstanding team. There is no outstanding team because the technical organisational fitness and strategic abilities run deep through all the teams in the division. All qualities that are required to do well in Europe. Pats are 6th in our ‘crap standard’ league. Hammered by Derry 2 weeks ago with a full team on. Riddle me that naysayers…..

[marcoloco]

Rovers progress in Europe securing E3.2M in the process... Pats progress and secure E1.3M in the process showing instant return on their decision to award Kenny a 5 year bumper contract. So important for the league that Irish team do well in Europe as is pushes up the co-efficient and ensures that money will find its way back into the league. Even Shelbourne secured a windfall this season and got through a round. Clear to see where the money is and no amount of league titles and FAI Cups compensates. Also, these results by the big Dublin teams prove what its possible and only serves to highlight our own shortcomings on the pitch.

But the thing is Shams have to win the league to get that route again. Winning the league is the key. So now the standard of our league isn’t so crap as some contributors here w**k on about because there is no outstanding team. There is no outstanding team because the technical organisational fitness and strategic abilities run deep through all the teams in the division. All qualities that are required to do well in Europe. Pats are 6th in our ‘crap standard’ league. Hammered by Derry 2 weeks ago with a full team on. Riddle me that naysayers…..

Winning the league nets you £100k. The Cup maybe £30k. Both give you a route into Europe which is also gained by a top 3 finish. So it doesn't really matter how you get there (other than bragging rights) what matters is what you do when you get there. And I'm sure Pats haven't lost any sleep over their cup exist as they clearly had bigger things on their mind. E1.3M in prize money and more to come. That will go back into their squad and they will grow stronger as a result. Much the same way as Dundalk and Rovers did when they dominated the league. Thats the ultimate objective.

[mokendismucker]

Actually winning the league gives an easier route to the group stages. Get knock out of champions league qualifiers you drop down to Europa league qualifiers . As shams have done this year win one tie and Conference league is guaranteed. Lose and you drop into final conference league qualifier. Guaranteed minimum 3 ties. So it does matter than you win the league. The 100k is insignificant in comparison. Win one of the 3 guaranteed matches and you have Conference league place.

Pats might have a good run this year in Europe but without a top 3/4 finish they will need all the dough they can get. So yes the FAI cup mattered to them massively. Just another example of how you consistently down grade Derry…..

[marcoloco]

Actually winning the league gives an easier route to the group stages. Get knock out of champions league qualifiers you drop down to Europa league qualifiers . As shams have done this year win one tie and Conference league is guaranteed. Lose and you drop into final conference league qualifier. Guaranteed minimum 3 ties. So it does matter than you win the league. The 100k is insignificant in comparison. Win one of the 3 guaranteed matches and you have Conference league place.

Pats might have a good run this year in Europe but without a top 3/4 finish they will need all the dough they can get. So yes the FAI cup mattered to them massively. Just another example of how you consistently down grade Derry…..

Winning the league delivers greater rewards in Europe. Maybe now you can understand our frustrations with this season's league campaign. Rovers will be back next season with a significant pot of money to spend on reinforcements. This season presents a huge opportunity to others to nick a league title and break up their dominance.

Pats are a different story. After winning the Cup they changed their manager and their squad. They brought in Kenny and he's delivered instant success in Europe. That money has already seen them improve their squad and they are now reaping the rewards. A top 4 finish is still not beyond them but its a big ask, I agree. Nevertheless, they'll net serious money for next season's rebuild.

So my point stands. Winning domestic titles and cups is important but really they only give you a shot at making serious money - that's what matters to the big teams. We've still got an outside chance in the league this season but have blown any chance of making decent money in Europe thus making it more difficult to compete with the Dublin teams long term.

[Keyser Soze]

The great results by Pats and Rovers last night really only go to show how pitiful we were in Europe.

And Larne now play another Gibraltar team for a place in the Conference League group stages.

Our management team should be embarrassed. So much money missed too.

[marcoloco]

The great results by Pats and Rovers last night really only go to show how pitiful we were in Europe.

And Larne now play another Gibraltar team for a place in the Conference League group stages.

Our management team should be embarrassed. So much money missed too.

When reviewing the season and indeed the manager's tenure that result will go down as his lowest point. Its not one to put on the CV that's for sure but it will follow him wherever he goes. They only way to fix that is to add some silverware. Domestic Cups are fine but top managers win league titles and advance through the preliminary stages in Europe. Higgins knows that too so nothing we're saying here is a surprise to anyone and its not a dig either as some would like to make it out. When you're the manager a top side, and get a large budget then the expectation is that you deliver the goods.

[mokendismucker]

Actually winning the league gives an easier route to the group stages. Get knock out of champions league qualifiers you drop down to Europa league qualifiers . As shams have done this year win one tie and Conference league is guaranteed. Lose and you drop into final conference league qualifier. Guaranteed minimum 3 ties. So it does matter than you win the league. The 100k is insignificant in comparison. Win one of the 3 guaranteed matches and you have Conference league place.

Pats might have a good run this year in Europe but without a top 3/4 finish they will need all the dough they can get. So yes the FAI cup mattered to them massively. Just another example of how you consistently down grade Derry…..

Winning the league delivers greater rewards in Europe. Maybe now you can understand our frustrations with this season's league campaign. Rovers will be back next season with a significant pot of money to spend on reinforcements. This season presents a huge opportunity to others to nick a league title and break up their dominance.

Pats are a different story. After winning the Cup they changed their manager and their squad. They brought in Kenny and he's delivered instant success in Europe. That money has already seen them improve their squad and they are now reaping the rewards. A top 4 finish is still not beyond them but its a big ask, I agree. Nevertheless, they'll net serious money for next season's rebuild.

So my point stands. Winning domestic titles and cups is important but really they only give you a shot at making serious money - that's what matters to the big teams. We've still got an outside chance in the league this season but have blown any chance of making decent money in Europe thus making it more difficult to compete with the Dublin teams long term.

We wouldn’t and no other side would have got past Copenhagen so the decent money argument is redundant.

[eugenio]

While Mokendi wants no criticism of our performances He FAILS significantly to address this point POD is pumping in big money here so maybe the desire OR the need to advance in Europe didn’t bother our management staff as money is there at the end of a tap.
But now to a supporters view To hell with the money I want Derry to play well to duff sides not PLAY UP the poor standard eg of Dundalk twice and Sligo I WANT US TO WIN THESE. NEVER NEVER FORGET THEY WERE V V WINNABLE. Gibralter was the worst ever in our history twice The 3 sides and I include Larne gave their fans great nights A Cash boost yes to those with no cash cow but surely surely that’s what a fan wants a night to remember to cheer on to be proud of We have the bloody players after all Best in the league almost man for man I think GIVE US A THRILL BEAT SOME OF THESE TOSH OUTFITS . REM IF POD GOES ITS BACK TO THE BAD OLD DAYS POSS FOR A LONG LONG TIME

[Keyser Soze]

Actually winning the league gives an easier route to the group stages. Get knock out of champions league qualifiers you drop down to Europa league qualifiers . As shams have done this year win one tie and Conference league is guaranteed. Lose and you drop into final conference league qualifier. Guaranteed minimum 3 ties. So it does matter than you win the league. The 100k is insignificant in comparison. Win one of the 3 guaranteed matches and you have Conference league place.

Pats might have a good run this year in Europe but without a top 3/4 finish they will need all the dough they can get. So yes the FAI cup mattered to them massively. Just another example of how you consistently down grade Derry…..

Winning the league delivers greater rewards in Europe. Maybe now you can understand our frustrations with this season's league campaign. Rovers will be back next season with a significant pot of money to spend on reinforcements. This season presents a huge opportunity to others to nick a league title and break up their dominance.

Pats are a different story. After winning the Cup they changed their manager and their squad. They brought in Kenny and he's delivered instant success in Europe. That money has already seen them improve their squad and they are now reaping the rewards. A top 4 finish is still not beyond them but its a big ask, I agree. Nevertheless, they'll net serious money for next season's rebuild.

So my point stands. Winning domestic titles and cups is important but really they only give you a shot at making serious money - that's what matters to the big teams. We've still got an outside chance in the league this season but have blown any chance of making decent money in Europe thus making it more difficult to compete with the Dublin teams long term.

We wouldn’t and no other side would have got past Copenhagen so the decent money argument is redundant.

What are you talking about?
We lost out on 300k by going out to Magpies.