Brandywell Stadium Development

[marcoloco]

Steve, the great thing about your articles is the discussions that follow. It gets people talking about issues, agreeing or disputing, and it's from that process that we get progress in some form or another. In this instance I do think you've set about trying to justify a move away from the Brandywell rather than really exploring the opportunities that exist there.

I've looked at the Brandywell and the land available at the Showgrounds in some detail. Here's the thing - there is ample land behind the goal to build a two tier stand and accommodate additional community facilities such as a cafe, gym, offices within. The obvious downside of this is losing the dog track.

So in that sense i'm in total agreement. You can't accommodate the stadium growth necessary at the Brandywell without compromise. But the Brandywell area is the heart of the Club and should remain so. Yes, you've made a case for other parts of the City with greater population catchment, better connected and in 'neutral' areas but the reality is that building a new stadium at Templemore is not financially viable.

What would be viable is relocating the dog tack to Templemore and creating a modern, fit for purpose football stadium at the Brandywell. A new two tier stand behind the goal would give us the capacity needed with future development at the other end a real possibility if the pitch is moved forward. A two tier stand connecting the MF and Southend Stand is possible and would require only minor demolition of part of the Southend Stand.

With three stands connected we would would have something really special that meets the Club's needs. The remaining land at the dog track would also be available to integrate into the wider masterplan. So I would be asking that Council undertake a bolder re-develompent of the Brandywell Stadium rather than the piecemeal crap that we've been served up to date and SF trying to promote it as 'word class'. Do they think we are stupid?

[Budgie]

You both made valid points, and you both again highlight the dog track still being the main issue that holds back a proper redevelopment of the Brandywell.

This is what the focus should be on. The dog track, as I see it, would be the easiest option to move to another site. With what the stadium already has in place, it would be much more valuable and sensible to be able to redevelop this stadium for the Club to keep it's base in that community.

An upgraded stadium would also have more benefits than just European matches at it. Benefits for the local area in particular.

[stevebradley]

For anyone who hasn't seen it, the article in the Journal is here = https://www.derryjournal.com/sport/foot ... ll-3941303

[KEVK]

I read somewhere that the Council approved the construction of a temporary terrace behind the nets at the dog track end - can anyone confirm it and know anything about size of terrace and if it will be covered?

Have always wanted a terrace behind the nets at the Brandywell, so may well "move" to it if we get one.

[Greengo]

I read somewhere that the Council approved the construction of a temporary terrace behind the nets at the dog track end - can anyone confirm it and know anything about size of terrace and if it will be covered?

Have always wanted a terrace behind the nets at the Brandywell, so may well "move" to it if we get one.

Where did you read that Kev ?

[stevebradley]

I read somewhere that the Council approved the construction of a temporary terrace behind the nets at the dog track end - can anyone confirm it and know anything about size of terrace and if it will be covered?

Have always wanted a terrace behind the nets at the Brandywell, so may well "move" to it if we get one.

It was in the media that the club was meeting the council to propose such an idea Thursday-last, but I hadn't seen anything confirmed.

I was up at the merchandise shop on Thursday nighh, and had a good look at the area behind that goal. It's a tricky space, as the curve of the dog track means that it is very narrow at the end nearest the Mark Farren, and then quite wide at the end alongside the Southend Stand. So it would be a very weird looking stand. I still think it would be very tricky to put many seats in there, purely because you have to leave enough space for high vehicles to drive along behind and underneath it. Which would necessitate a very high gradient, and I don't think that would work (though woudl be happy to be proven wrong).

Personally I'd put a new self-contained away stand behind the nets at the Brandywell Road end. Would need a bit of underpinning because the road is much higher, but I reckon you could get about 400 seats there, and have separate turnstiles straight into the stand from Brandywell Road. Which would give us proper segregation of away fans inside the stadium for the first time. Then Block A of the Southend Stand (or whatever of it was useable givej the angles) could then be used for home fans again. For games where very few away fans are expected (e.g. UCD) you could then use that new stand for home fans instead, and give the visitors a row or two in the Southend.

[City4ever]

Surely a temporary stand for home fans could easily be installed next to the Mark Farren Stand, close to the Brandywell Road end.... It's flat and tarmac...
Another could be added behind the goals at Brandywell road, it's a slight slope but lots of space

[marcoloco]

1. Relocate dogs to Templemore
2. Continue to expand Brandywell
3. No underpinning needed. No funny shaped stands needed.
4. Simple and straightforward. Standard build and standard costs. Nothing abnormal.
5. Trying to accommodate football and dogs in the same place is not sustainable in the long term.
6. Someone needs to take ownership of this within the Council. No doubt will require lots of engagement and consultations etc etc.
7. Please don't spend money on building a Frankenstien stand at the Brandywell. Costly and non effective with a short shelf life.

[Greengo]

8. Move to Celtic Park

[Keyser Soze]

Move to Celtic Park, or buy Celtic Park?

First might be tricky as we know how awkward the GAA can be when it comes to football being played on their premises.

Second might be too costly. Prime land in the city, I'm sure Derry GAA would be looking for huge money for it, that's even before we made it fit for purpose.

[marcoloco]

8. Move to Celtic Park

Two problems. GAA and £££.

If its on the table as a viable option then of course but how realistic is it really?

[stevebradley]

8. Move to Celtic Park

Two problems. GAA and £££.

If its on the table as a viable option then of course but how realistic is it really?

The GAA have publicly stated that they want to make Owenbeg the County Ground, and also that they need to spend at least £3m on it in the coming years. They'll have got a good bit of cash off their All-Ireland run last year, but will still doubtless be short. Ulster GAA is skint, and needs all its money for Casement (as will Croke Park). So Derry City could therefore do them a favour by buying a Celtic Park that would be far too big as a second county ground. The GAA could then invest in expanding one of the club grounds in the city to make that the new local GAA hub and second county ground.

The big issue for me is that Derry City has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to look anywhere other than the Brandywell for our future. It's very short-sighted to be so closed-minded about the issue IMO.

[stevebradley]

Move to Celtic Park, or buy Celtic Park?

First might be tricky as we know how awkward the GAA can be when it comes to football being played on their premises.

Second might be too costly. Prime land in the city, I'm sure Derry GAA would be looking for huge money for it, that's even before we made it fit for purpose.

There's no way Derry City could be a tenant of the GAA at Celtic Park. The club would have to buy the ground to use it.

As for prime land - land prices in Derry are actually pretty low (for example - it would cost you more to replace the average terraced house in the city if it burned down than it would for you to actually buy it in the first place). There are a number of 'prime' sites around the city that sit empty unbought for years (e.g. Fort George, Bay Road), and I honestly wouldn't call the Lone Moor Road a prime site for anything other than social housing in all truth. So if the club and County Boards were interested, I think it woudl be very doable. The big expense would be in redeveloping the stadium, rather than the purchase price.

[Greengo]

The big issue for me is that Derry City has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to look anywhere other than the Brandywell for our future. It's very short-sighted to be so closed-minded about the issue IMO.

^^^ THIS


It begs the question WHY ?

[Greengo]

There's no way Derry City could be a tenant of the GAA at Celtic Park. The club would have to buy the ground to use it.

I dunno Steve... They currently are a tennant at the Brandywell so why not switch...

If yee wanted to move house and become a tennant elsewhere you owe nothing to your former landlord...

[stevebradley]

There's no way Derry City could be a tenant of the GAA at Celtic Park. The club would have to buy the ground to use it.

I dunno Steve... They currently are a tennant at the Brandywell so why not switch...

If yee wanted to move house and become a tennant elsewhere you owe nothing to your former landlord...

The challenge lies with the GAA though. I really can't see the County Board being prepared to share Celtic Park with Derry City. The fact that we have a lot more regular fixtures than them means it would quickly become much more our home than their's. And I suspect they'd also be embarassed by us getting larger crowds than them most of the time. I also can't think of any county grounds in Ireland that are shared with other sports regularly (?), and from what I'm led to believe the Derry County board are particularly anti-'soccer'.

The 2023 league fixtures for Derry GAA were announced last week. Of their 4 football home games, only one is at Celic Park (albeit the biggest one, against Dublin). And of their 2 home hurling games, one is at CP and the other at Owenbeg. They certainly seem to be following through on their desire for Owenbeg to be the main county ground. Which I think provides an opportunity for us to explore buying the ground from them, rather than just renting it

[Big_Red]

I personally don't get all this re-location talk. We have spent years pleading to get the Brandywell upgraded, we've finally got the farren stand and with a bit of luck will have further development.

At the minute the demand for our games is the biggest I've ever seen, but I it's very premature to say that we've "outgrown" the Brandywell. Big crowds have come and gone over the years so let see if we can sustain this crowd for a few years first, because we all know how fickle fans can be if the form drops, or god forbid the manager leaves or POD stops bankrolling us.

Another question is if we were to want to move to Celtic Park etc, who do we expect will pay for that? We've seen how difficult it is to get a new stand financed.

[KEVK]

Celtic Park is not compatible for "soccer" in its current build and would need a lot of work.

Remember when soccer matches were played in Croke Park? Huge distances between the nets and the stands behind the net and quite a distance along the sides of the pitch due to the bigger pitch dimensions.

It would kill the atmosphere and would just look disjointed. We always seem to be putting square pegs into round wholes when it comes to a stadium. Football stadiums should be quite simple - 4 stands on each side of the pitch that are within 10 yards of the pitch. Do that, and you create a brilliant atmosphere and it looks great on TV.

[dcfc_jp_1989]

I personally don't get all this re-location talk. We have spent years pleading to get the Brandywell upgraded, we've finally got the farren stand and with a bit of luck will have further development.

At the minute the demand for our games is the biggest I've ever seen, but I it's very premature to say that we've "outgrown" the Brandywell. Big crowds have come and gone over the years so let see if we can sustain this crowd for a few years first, because we all know how fickle fans can be if the form drops, or god forbid the manager leaves or POD stops bankrolling us.

Another question is if we were to want to move to Celtic Park etc, who do we expect will pay for that? We've seen how difficult it is to get a new stand financed.

Regardless, the club & the City needs a stadium that equates to UEFA Category 4, it is very unlikely that this can be achieved at the Brandywell. I take your point on lets see if the demand continues for a few years yet but POD has already stated that he wants European football to be a regular occurance for Derry City & one day make the group stages. Right now making the group stages would benefit us financially but it will be a hinderance for fans who work if we have to travel to Dublin for "home" games.

Even if the demand dips a category 4 stadium in our own City is a necessity as it means not just the football club benefits but the City itself

[marcoloco]

The big issue for me is that Derry City has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to look anywhere other than the Brandywell for our future. It's very short-sighted to be so closed-minded about the issue IMO.

^^^ THIS


It begs the question WHY ?

Why? ££££

POD has bankrolled the Club since he took over. It operates at a loss or has done most seasons. You can't just turn your back on a public owned facility where you pay a low rental. To build the type of stadium we need, land included, you're talking £5 to 10m.