Brandywell Stadium Development

[PauliAlonso]

Sligo have an application in for the next stage of the Showgrounds' redevelopment:
https://www.sligorovers.com/planning-ap ... velopment/

We've seen Harps' recently already:
https://finnharps.ie/finn-harps-stadium ... o-reality/

These, to me, are the ideal LOI ground. Capacity of 6-8k, not too big and should be (relatively) financially achievable. But neither of these could be done in the Brandywell. There's very little room behind either goal for anything substantial and we'd also need to cut away the corner sections of the New Stand to make room. You'd probably get net +700 seats? Is that worth it? Our only real chance for long-term expansion is the MF Stand and that's our limit.

[marcoloco]

Sligo have an application in for the next stage of the Showgrounds' redevelopment:
https://www.sligorovers.com/planning-ap ... velopment/

We've seen Harps' recently already:
https://finnharps.ie/finn-harps-stadium ... o-reality/

These, to me, are the ideal LOI ground. Capacity of 6-8k, not too big and should be (relatively) financially achievable. But neither of these could be done in the Brandywell. There's very little room behind either goal for anything substantial and we'd also need to cut away the corner sections of the New Stand to make room. You'd probably get net +700 seats? Is that worth it? Our only real chance for long-term expansion is the MF Stand and that's our limit.

Why not continue the MF stand around the Showgrounds end behind the goal?

That could put the capacity up to 8k

You lose the doggy track but that's easier to replace that starting over again with a new stadium

Council will realise that the football club has outgrown the "world class" facilities on offer at the Brandywell.

Something will need to change.

[TenaciousDee]

Sligo have an application in for the next stage of the Showgrounds' redevelopment:
https://www.sligorovers.com/planning-ap ... velopment/

I had seen the tweets with the images this morning but thanks for the link, helped fill in gaps in what I previously saw. If it comes off it will be the envy of most, if not all, clubs in the country. As you say, the capacity is a realistic one for the league. Outside of "event games" towns/cities in the majority, have fleeting thoughts about their local club and seldom attend matches. We have seen this at the Brandywell in the past and in Dublin a week and a half ago. When the summer months come round and the early season hype dies, attendances settle and few hit the numbers of Cork and Rovers (although Cork's attendance is also known to fall once results go against them).

The plans for the hospitality area is something I imagined Institute could have done with their stand. They had a large undesignated area behind the goal that largely went unused. A few players and officials may have stood up there on occasion but all functions or gatherings were in a small room at the back of the stand facing the changing rooms. Wexford has it's restaurant and bar at their ground that looks onto half of the pitch but is a great investment for match day.

The stand in which away support and the gantry is situated has been in dire need of a facelift for years. Unless you are right at the wall you have a small chance of seeing the entire pitch, otherwise it is €15 for a view of 3/4 of the pitch and you have to stand throughout.

As for behind the nets at the Brandywell, we have discussed that here somewhere. I always imagined at the Brandywell Road end a terrace or compact stand similar to those at Riverside (again) fitting in there and not stealing daylight from the residents behind the ground. However, with only one accessible turnstile on that end it may be a health and safety issue.

[marcoloco]

Successful teams attract more interest at every level.

Better facilities also help to attract more fans and when you've got both - modern facilities and successful team you've hit the sweet spot in terms of attendances.

The Brandywell's current layout will never meet the demand if that sweet spot is achieved. Even if you complete the MF stand and squeezed in a small stand on the Brandywell Road end you arrive at Circa 6k. This would meet our needs 90% of games.

But if you wanted / needed to add another stand then the showgrounds end is the only viable option. There's an abundance of land and you could go large as there's no properties affected.

The obvious losers in this would be the dog track but it's easier to deliver a new dog tract than a new stadium.... all this is just wishful thinking as we currently sit with only a 3,7k capacity stadium and the completion of the MF stand in our lifetime would seem like a massive step forward.

[Keyser Soze]

In hindsight to have had the current Brandywell described as "world class" was a bit of a stretch wasn't it.

[marcoloco]

In hindsight to have had the current Brandywell described as "world class" was a bit of a stretch wasn't it.

It was the the same people that proclaimed it 'world class' that held back the regional stadia development funds.

[Keyser Soze]

But they'll still get their huge number of votes come the next election, because politicians in the North are never held responsible.

[TenaciousDee]

But they'll still get their huge number of votes come the next election, because politicians in the North are never held responsible.

This.

Sinn Fein were quick to get their banners up when the work began in 2016 to say they delivered the Brandywell project. They also proposed and fronted a contentious campaign to rename the ground but they are the ones holding up it's completion.

[marcoloco]

But they'll still get their huge number of votes come the next election, because politicians in the North are never held responsible.

This.

Sinn Fein were quick to get their banners up when the work began in 2016 to say they delivered the Brandywell project. They also proposed and fronted a contentious campaign to rename the ground but they are the ones holding up it's completion.

100%. And no doubt are still trying work out how to claim ownership and responsibility for delivering the FAI Cup for the City.

[stevebradley]

In hindsight to have had the current Brandywell described as "world class" was a bit of a stretch wasn't it.

In hindsight ?

It was obvious at the time that a stadium with a part-built stand, temporary toilets, no scoreboard, no clock, dugouts that can't have a roof to keep the players dry, spaces for disabled supporters that leave them exposed to the elements etc etc was very far from 'world class'. Unless it's Third World we're talking about.

[Keyser Soze]

All true of course.

You left out fans who got soaked by rain blowing in over a large section of the seats due to no sides.

[stevebradley]

All true of course.

You left out fans who got soaked by rain blowing in over a large section of the seats due to no sides.

The lack of sides is at least explained by the fact that the current sides are supposed to be in the middle when the MF Stand is complete.

What makes no sense at all is that the roof of the stand doesn;t jutt out far enough to cover the seats at the front. Sop when it rains anyone in the first 5 or so rows gets a soaking too. As do the people in the wheelchair section - who not only have to put up with one of the worst places to view from, but also get soaked for their pleasure too. As do the playersc on the bench - as they never thought about the dugouts having a roof over them until they realised that would obscure the view of a few rows of fans in the stand.

The current Brandywell is a considerable imrpovement on what went before - but is still nowhere near the finished item. And when the MF Stand gets complete, they should also sort out the other issues form its design flaws at the same time (e.g. extend the roof of the stand out front as much as they can etc).

[marcoloco]

All true of course.

You left out fans who got soaked by rain blowing in over a large section of the seats due to no sides.

The lack of sides is at least explained by the fact that the current sides are supposed to be in the middle when the MF Stand is complete.

What makes no sense at all is that the roof of the stand doesn;t jutt out far enough to cover the seats at the front. Sop when it rains anyone in the first 5 or so rows gets a soaking too. As do the people in the wheelchair section - who not only have to put up with one of the worst places to view from, but also get soaked for their pleasure too. As do the playersc on the bench - as they never thought about the dugouts having a roof over them until they realised that would obscure the view of a few rows of fans in the stand.

The current Brandywell is a considerable imrpovement on what went before - but is still nowhere near the finished item. And when the MF Stand gets complete, they should also sort out the other issues form its design flaws at the same time (e.g. extend the roof of the stand out front as much as they can etc).

Steve its clear that they opted for the do minimum, cheapest design solution and when you do that you get the design flaws mentioned. You're not seriously sugguesting that they go back and remove the existing roof and replace it with an improved design that is actually fit for purpose?

[stevebradley]

You're not seriously sugguesting that they go back and remove the existing roof and replace it with an improved design that is actually fit for purpose?

(e.g. extend the roof of the stand out front as much as they can etc).

[Budgie]

Great piece in the Journal, Steve. The club needs people with your mindset involved.

[marcoloco]

Great piece in the Journal, Steve. The club needs people with your mindset involved.

A good read indeed highlighting the issuing affecting the club.

But I don't agree with this claim and its quite fundament to the thrust of the argument...

"Given the current layout of Brandywell Stadium, it is hard to see how any further work in future could boost capacity to much above 6,000 without essentially having to knock down most of the ground and start again".

Surely the sensible thing is to explore a 3rd stand behind the goal at showgrounds end of the stadium? It could easily push capacity up to the 8k, bringing us up to the same level as our competitors. No demolition would be required at all and it could be delivered without impacting the current fixtures schedules. In fact, you could design and have planning permission for that within a year with construction starting immediately afterwards if the money was available. Its greenfield and flat So the article left me a bit confused as it implied that building a new stadium elsewhere would be easier / preferable to build a single stand on a greenfield? Or am I missing something?

[TenaciousDee]

Trying to envision it here Marco. Say the council did build a stand behind the Showgrounds goal, wouldn't that mean we'd have to reduce the capacity of the South End Stand? Whether it links into a newer stand or not, a new structure (in theory) would result in a restricted view for anyone in the sections to the left, and maybe including, section K. That of course is if the stand would run the length of the goal line.

[brandyball]

What about adding the other 2/3rds of the MF Stand as promised?

[dcfc_jp_1989]

What about adding the other 2/3rds of the MF Stand as promised?

Only takes the capacity to circa 6k. Steve's article is based around that not even being enough anymore with the club having ambitions of making European group stages, to do that you need a stadium between 8-10k capacity as well as other added facililties

[stevebradley]

Great piece in the Journal, Steve. The club needs people with your mindset involved.

A good read indeed highlighting the issuing affecting the club.

But I don't agree with this claim and its quite fundament to the thrust of the argument...

"Given the current layout of Brandywell Stadium, it is hard to see how any further work in future could boost capacity to much above 6,000 without essentially having to knock down most of the ground and start again".

Surely the sensible thing is to explore a 3rd stand behind the goal at showgrounds end of the stadium? It could easily push capacity up to the 8k, bringing us up to the same level as our competitors. No demolition would be required at all and it could be delivered without impacting the current fixtures schedules. In fact, you could design and have planning permission for that within a year with construction starting immediately afterwards if the money was available. Its greenfield and flat So the article left me a bit confused as it implied that building a new stadium elsewhere would be easier / preferable to build a single stand on a greenfield? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for the positive feedback Marco & Budge .

The challenge for me here is as all about the greyhound track. The council was originally going to get rid of it until a fuss was kicked up and it was relocated instead. Now I have nothing against the greyhound fraternity - but realistically there are very few of them in Derry, and the dog track tail has wagged the entire Brandywell Stadium project ever since.

If the dog track remains, then the Showgrounds end of the Brandywell is very limited. You could build a stand up and over the walk way and part of the dog track there - but it would need to leave enough headroom underneath for team buses, Outside Broadcast lorries, ambulances etc to access the half of the stadium where the Mark Farren Stand, changing rooms etc are. So the gradient of the stand to provide that clearance might end up being so ridiculously high as to be impractical (I'm no architect, and it would be great if one could play around with the options there to see what would be possible). Even still - if you compare the space behind a net versus along the side of a pitch, you usually get no more than a quarter or at a push a third of the capacity behind nets as you do elsewhere. So compared to the Mark Farren Stand that would mean another 700-900 seated behind the Southend nets. And to do that you'd have to lop off at least the last Block of the existing Southend stand, as it would be in the way and/or have its view impacted. So net you'd be talking what - 600-800 addiitonal seats behind the Showgroud nets (that's if it was possible at all due to vehicle clearance underneath) ? Which on top of the c.5,500 capacity once the MF Stand is completed only gets us to about 6,300 (or 6,500 if we're being generous).

The only way I can think of to genuinely maximise capacity at the Brandywlel is to move the pich southwards so you can have a stand behind the Brandywell Road nets as well. Presumably that would add a similar number as at the Showgorunds end i.e. 600-900 or so ? But that would require impacting or losing at least Block A of the Southend Stand. And more importantly - moving, reducing or removing the dog track. Which brings us back to the fact that it is calling the shots regarding the entire stadium project (despite so few people using it). And even after that you'd still be looking at a capacity, with decent stands behind both ends (if possible), of 7,000-7,500. Significantly better than what we currently have, but not enough for the European group stages the Chairman has said he wants to see (unless we could get dispensation).

And that's before we look at the other limitations of the Brandywell site in terms of parking, road capacity, propoer segregation of away fans, not in a neutral area etc etc. And the fact we don't own it, so can't control what goes on there, can't maximise income from it etc.

In short - the Council should have stuck to its guns on the original decision to move the dog track away from the Brandywell, as it is a major limitation on what can be achieved with the entire Brandywell site (the dog track area is feckin' huge if you look at aerial images). And I go back to my broken record approach of stating that the club should also have been much more open-minded 10years or so ago about where their future could be and not saay that Brandywell was 'The only Show in Town'. That's my tuppence worth anyway.