Brandywell Stadium Development

[rodgers]

Brandywell currently cat 2. It's media facilities are barely fit for purpose. This rules it out of a certain level of game should Derry progress. Hopefully the new third European competition might make that a more regular occurrence.

Given current FAI finances, looks the u21 bid will not be going ahead. In any event, cat 3 minimum is required.

The u19 is going ahead this summer in NI. Brandywell was eligible for that but according to the Council turned down by IFA because of pitch.

https://www.uefa.com/under19/finals/

These kinds of games, together with competitive u21 internationals are the kinds of game I have in mind.

I appreciate where you are coming from but no reason not to be ambitious. As marcoloco also says, the supposed need for business cases and the like will often be binned when politically expedient. Wouldn't be surprised if consultation will be rigged from the start to suit predetermined aims.

The reference to the recent growth in women's football is significant in my opinion.

[stevebradley]

Brandywell currently cat 2. It's media facilities are barely fit for purpose. This rules it out of a certain level of game should Derry progress. Hopefully the new third European competition might make that a more regular occurrence.

Given current FAI finances, looks the u21 bid will not be going ahead. In any event, cat 3 minimum is required.

The u19 is going ahead this summer in NI. Brandywell was eligible for that but according to the Council turned down by IFA because of pitch.

https://www.uefa.com/under19/finals/

These kinds of games, together with competitive u21 internationals are the kinds of game I have in mind.

I appreciate where you are coming from but no reason not to be ambitious. As marcoloco also says, the supposed need for business cases and the like will often be binned when politically expedient. Wouldn't be surprised if consultation will be rigged from the start to suit predetermined aims.

The reference to the recent growth in women's football is significant in my opinion.

The Brandywell's media facilities are currently located in the Southend Stand. Adding c. 2,500 seats to the stand opposite is not the only way to update them. It was left out of the 2017-18 refurb because the council obviously didn't think about them.

DCFC has never reached a stage in European competition where our ground was not acceptable (the 1960s Anderlecht nonsense aside). Hope alone re that changing in future is not going to stack up as grounds for our already good stadium to receive significant funding over other much more deserving facilities.

The only thing stopping Brandywell being part of the one-off U19s tournament was the council's own choice of pitch. No level of additional work to the Mark Farren Stand would have changed that. So ignoring the fact that it was a one-off event unlikely to be repeated for a significant period of time - how does make the case for further Stormont funding ?

As for political expediency. I suspect the allocation of this funding will be watched like a hawk. As already mentioned, Crusaders have previously delayed the entire process by going to Court over decisions made without transparency. Which if why the Minister is now talking about this being an open and transparent process.

Our case is not strong here, and if we're reduced to replying on politicians pulling a strong for us then we're not in a good place. Sinn Fein will be just as keen to pull strings for Cliftonville for example, who have a much stronger case than us to enable them to do so. Perhaps Dungannon also. The DUP will likewise be keen to see Glentoran, Crusaders, Portadown, Larne, Carrick etc receive funding too - and all those grounds will have a stronger case than us if they apply.

Again - I hope I'm wrong on all of this. But if I was in charge of that funding I honestly couldn't see a valid case to prioritise the Brandywell over pretty much any Irish League ground under any fair assessment of need. We have to acknowledge that we're effectively asking for some other stadium to remain wholly or partially shiit so that our's can get even better.

[rodgers]

Thought press, radio and commentators sat in Mark Farren.

I accept those higher level games are often few and far between but I think you may as well refer to them. Would love our Council to have approached their ground like Tallaght. Rovers weren't hitting the numbers to justify 8k but still got it.

Any number of stadiums get upgrades for unlikely to be repeated events.

I personally don't think we will get the funding from this round. But for the same old historical reasons. As opposed to the application of an open and transparent allocation of funding based on an assessment of need. Concepts that are alien to Northern Ireland as Derry knows only too well.
.

[KEVK]

There are countless examples in England, and Shamrock Rovers being one where increasing the capacity was not deemed necessary because games were not selling out.

But increased capacity normally leads to increased attendances - build it and they'll come, but within reason.

The Club's current model on ticket prices is based on the limited capacity, and to maximise income from gate receipts they need to have tickets at a higher price - let's be honest, current prices are a bit steep.

The Club can't afford to offer free entry to kids under 12 any more. They can't afford to offer highly discounted family packages. They can't afford to hand out hundreds of free tickets for the big games, and the big games are the ones that get people hooked and new supporters coming back. Not the UCD/Bray games.

Without increased capacity, the Club cannot adopt a tiered pricing model that's more inclusive to attract children and families.

[stevebradley]

There are countless examples in England, and Shamrock Rovers being one where increasing the capacity was not deemed necessary because games were not selling out.

But increased capacity normally leads to increased attendances - build it and they'll come, but within reason.

The Club's current model on ticket prices is based on the limited capacity, and to maximise income from gate receipts they need to have tickets at a higher price - let's be honest, current prices are a bit steep.

The Club can't afford to offer free entry to kids under 12 any more. They can't afford to offer highly discounted family packages. They can't afford to hand out hundreds of free tickets for the big games, and the big games are the ones that get people hooked and new supporters coming back. Not the UCD/Bray games.

Without increased capacity, the Club cannot adopt a tiered pricing model that's more inclusive to attract children and families.

These are all good points Kev, and would tap into the idea of inclusivity and exclusion - i.e. the limited capacity means the club is currently unable to make it easy for people/families without a decent income to attend, to encourage more children, schools etc.

[martinbradleey]

Media facilities are based in the Mark Farren stand.

[marcoloco]

All good debate but it does show that with some creative thinking, design input into the remaining two sections, inclusion complimentary uses, positive narrative there's the bones of a bid in there. Not suggesting that its nailed on but you need to make your case. We've seen money returned to Westminster and we see money getting allocated to the likes of UU for bail-outs. We can but hope.

[KEVK]

There are countless examples in England, and Shamrock Rovers being one where increasing the capacity was not deemed necessary because games were not selling out.

But increased capacity normally leads to increased attendances - build it and they'll come, but within reason.

The Club's current model on ticket prices is based on the limited capacity, and to maximise income from gate receipts they need to have tickets at a higher price - let's be honest, current prices are a bit steep.

The Club can't afford to offer free entry to kids under 12 any more. They can't afford to offer highly discounted family packages. They can't afford to hand out hundreds of free tickets for the big games, and the big games are the ones that get people hooked and new supporters coming back. Not the UCD/Bray games.

Without increased capacity, the Club cannot adopt a tiered pricing model that's more inclusive to attract children and families.

These are all good points Kev, and would tap into the idea of inclusivity and exclusion - i.e. the limited capacity means the club is currently unable to make it easy for people/families without a decent income to attend, to encourage more children, schools etc.

Another slant on this which I'm surprised our Chairman has not pushed for is facilities for corporate hospitality packages which can be a good earner for the Club, but could also put the Club at the forefront of corporate entertainment in the North West area.

I know we have a bar in the Mark Farren Stand, but do we have genuine facilities to attract corporate groups/VIPs that offer an experience that could get close to what you would get at Ulster Rugby, Belfast Giants Ice Hockey........even the Lifford dog track could attract those kind of groups because of the overall "package" they could put on.

[stevebradley]

There are countless examples in England, and Shamrock Rovers being one where increasing the capacity was not deemed necessary because games were not selling out.

But increased capacity normally leads to increased attendances - build it and they'll come, but within reason.

The Club's current model on ticket prices is based on the limited capacity, and to maximise income from gate receipts they need to have tickets at a higher price - let's be honest, current prices are a bit steep.

The Club can't afford to offer free entry to kids under 12 any more. They can't afford to offer highly discounted family packages. They can't afford to hand out hundreds of free tickets for the big games, and the big games are the ones that get people hooked and new supporters coming back. Not the UCD/Bray games.

Without increased capacity, the Club cannot adopt a tiered pricing model that's more inclusive to attract children and families.

These are all good points Kev, and would tap into the idea of inclusivity and exclusion - i.e. the limited capacity means the club is currently unable to make it easy for people/families without a decent income to attend, to encourage more children, schools etc.

Another slant on this which I'm surprised our Chairman has not pushed for is facilities for corporate hospitality packages which can be a good earner for the Club, but could also put the Club at the forefront of corporate entertainment in the North West area.

I know we have a bar in the Mark Farren Stand, but do we have genuine facilities to attract corporate groups/VIPs that offer an experience that could get close to what you would get at Ulster Rugby, Belfast Giants Ice Hockey........even the Lifford dog track could attract those kind of groups because of the overall "package" they could put on.

Those facilities are all privately-owned though.

I'm not sure the argument that Derry City would like corporate boxes and big-price fancy seats is going to do us many favours seeking public funding up against grounds that have condemned stands/sections of the ground, open seating etc etc, and two clubs that are homeless. Like asking for famine relief funding to be diverted so you can have better dessert after your main meal ?

[marcoloco]

I'm not sure the argument that Derry City would like corporate boxes and big-price fancy seats is going to do us many favours seeking public funding up against grounds that have condemned stands/sections of the ground, open seating etc etc, and two clubs that are homeless. Like asking for famine relief funding to be diverted so you can have better dessert after your main meal ?[/quote]

Think we need to stop thinking about this as a "Derry City FC" venture (though they, obviously, would benefit most. But at the end of the day they are tenants just like Institute). I agree with Steve that corporate event space would be welcome, albeit an indulgence.

But again, if Council are wanting a fit-for-purpose regional stadium, outside of Belfast, then this is the type of accommodation would be expected for when certain digniteries are in attendance. Again, totally understand that its a luxury but IF your submitting plans and building it out you get once chance to do it right. No one want to be retrofitting. DCFC would be the obvious winners in all of this but i'm sure Council wouldn't be shy in increasing their rent if they thought the Club were making money out of it.

[danny hale]

Corporate events ? Never going to happen , once we stayed in The Brandywell it’s only ever going to be a wee Council football ground.

[marcoloco]

Corporate events ? Never going to happen , once we stayed in The Brandywell it’s only ever going to be a wee Council football ground.

That's what ppl said about Tottenham and now they've got the most advanced, corporate focused, football stadium in the world. Totteham - the most deprived area of London and a bugger to get to - if they can pull it off so there's hope for the rest of us!

[danny hale]

Corporate events ? Never going to happen , once we stayed in The Brandywell it’s only ever going to be a wee Council football ground.

That's what ppl said about Tottenham and now they've got the most advanced, corporate focused, football stadium in the world. Totteham - the most deprived area of London and a bugger to get to - if they can pull it off so there's hope for the rest of us!

Comparing Derry to London and spurs ? ! Come on

[marcoloco]

Corporate events ? Never going to happen , once we stayed in The Brandywell it’s only ever going to be a wee Council football ground.

That's what ppl said about Tottenham and now they've got the most advanced, corporate focused, football stadium in the world. Totteham - the most deprived area of London and a bugger to get to - if they can pull it off so there's hope for the rest of us!

Comparing Derry to London and spurs ? ! Come on

No. I'm comparing the Brandywell to Tottenham. Both deprived areas, both with access issues. It was you that highlighted our location as being the barrier so i'm just giving you an example of how it can work against all the odds.

[stevebradley]

That's what ppl said about Tottenham and now they've got the most advanced, corporate focused, football stadium in the world. Totteham - the most deprived area of London and a bugger to get to - if they can pull it off so there's hope for the rest of us!

Comparing Derry to London and spurs ? ! Come on

No. I'm comparing the Brandywell to Tottenham. Both deprived areas, both with access issues. It was you that highlighted our location as being the barrier so i'm just giving you an example of how it can work against all the odds.

I'll do you a deal Marco. Once the council get a contract for NFL teams to play regular season games at the Brandywell, then I'll entertain a comparison between us and White Hart Lane

Tottenham is classed as a deprived area btw, but is by no means the worst in London. Newham (where West Ham play) has that honour.

[marcoloco]

That's what ppl said about Tottenham and now they've got the most advanced, corporate focused, football stadium in the world. Totteham - the most deprived area of London and a bugger to get to - if they can pull it off so there's hope for the rest of us! [/quote]
Comparing Derry to London and spurs ? ! Come on[/quote]

No. I'm comparing the Brandywell to Tottenham. Both deprived areas, both with access issues. It was you that highlighted our location as being the barrier so i'm just giving you an example of how it can work against all the odds.[/quote]

I'll do you a deal Marco. Once the council get a contract for NFL teams to play regular season games at the Brandywell, then I'll entertain a comparison between us and White Hart Lane

Tottenham is classed as a deprived area btw, but is by no means the worst in London. Newham (where West Ham play) has that honour.[/quote]

You've got to hand it to Levy. But that's the sort of thinking that you need to make a success of things when it appears that there's no way to improve things. Its to easy to give up or look for excuses. I agree 100% that there's better locations for our stadium but its not happening so therefore we make the best of it. Harringey is one of the most most deprived in London and the Tottenham ward, until very recently, was near the bottom - though accepted there's worse areas. But the point remains - both experience deprivation and access problems - operating in different markets obviously - but just need some creative thinking to make the stadium work a bit harder for the City rather than on 20 evenings a year.

[rodgers]

https://shamrockrovers.ie/2020/06/12/sd ... velopment/

South Dublin County Council to add fourth stand to Tallaght.

[rodgers]

https://www.derrynow.com/news/news/5736 ... tches.html

Pitch hasn't looked great recently but not sure if this has to do with it.

[eugenio]

Dec has solved weed problem for council he’s signed them and most wont get to get on the pitch

[TenaciousDee]

Really hoped I would never have to look at this thread again but here we are, in 2021 and Mark H Durkan is making a call for progression on the subregional stadia funds that would finish the Brandywell.

https://www.derryjournal.com/country-an ... bs-3140333