Brandywell Stadium Development

[marcoloco]

Irrespective of land values the estimated cost of any new stadium is £10m to £15m. I'd argue availability of suitable sites is as big a problem as cost. Throw in your academy and team building and your looking closer at £13m to £18m investment. That's a serious ask of any owner with little hope of recovering any investment. Whilst charity can go so far there's still a need to be sensible.

Of course the best players want to play in the best grounds but salary, professional day to day facilities, and other factors such as housing, education for their families will come into play also.

We both agree that there is 3 parts of the puzzle. I agree that you can't leave any out. Its all about how and when you can deliver those 3 parts. Many teams move forward with a plan and build up but you are suggesting we deliver all 3 parts at once. I just find that a big ask for a club run on a tight budget and kept afloat by volunteers.

[Keyser Soze]

I know many will say "he's a business man, he's not going to throw £20mill at Derry City to build a stadium and academy ", but playing devil's advocate here!!

To take us to that level, to have his name forever in the history of Derry City, to maybe push his home town club to a strange new level of football in the city, would take perhaps 2% or less of his wealth.

I know if it was me, I could survive on the other 98% I had.

[stevebradley]

Irrespective of land values the estimated cost of any new stadium is £10m to £15m. I'd argue availability of suitable sites is as big a problem as cost. Throw in your academy and team building and your looking closer at £13m to £18m investment. That's a serious ask of any owner with little hope of recovering any investment. Whilst charity can go so far there's still a need to be sensible.

Of course the best players want to play in the best grounds but salary, professional day to day facilities, and other factors such as housing, education for their families will come into play also.

We both agree that there is 3 parts of the puzzle. I agree that you can't leave any out. Its all about how and when you can deliver those 3 parts. Many teams move forward with a plan and build up but you are suggesting we deliver all 3 parts at once. I just find that a big ask for a club run on a tight budget and kept afloat by volunteers.

POD has more than enough money to do all of the above. The guy sold a business for £2bn ! It's obviously up to him what he chooses to spend it on, but I suspect he's already spent millions bankrolling the team for years now anyway - and had only an FAI Cup so far to show for it, when the same money could've gone towards a long-term home for the club.

A financially astute way to do a new stadium for me would be :

1) Work with the Council to develop Templemore Complex as a mixed-use sports campus and civic stadum.
- The Council are already going to have to spend something like £25-39m on the place as it is, so combining that spend with money from the DCFC/POD and development gain from the houses planned nearby would deliver a good war chest for a great new facility.

2) With Brandywell no longer needed as DCFC's ground, turn it into the Academy location.
- Right in the heart of great footballing areas like Brandywell, Bogside and Creggan . And a facility that already largely exists, so would need only limited addiitonal expenditure to be a good Academy.
- Then the money that was planned to be spent on building a new Academy facility from scratch could be transferred over to the stadium build at Templemore.
- This would also keep the club's connection with the Brandywell site going for those for which that isn important. Ad the club;s underage and womens' teams could play there too, along with the D&D etc as currently.

The current club plan is to progress the Academy with the University of Ulster. And personally speaking I feel uncomfortbale with Derry City teaming up with an organisation who have spent decades breaking promises to the people of this city, who continue to gaslight us about university development here, and who put 15,000 students into Belfast wihtout that city asking and now claim they can't have 10,000 in Derry despite teling us they would repeatedly. University developoment is the Number 1 economic priority for this city, and has been for at least 26yrs. UU are a bunch of charlatans who treat us all like mugs whilst refusing to deliver on that promise. They are therefore literally holding this city back economically whilst lavishing £400m on Belfast with a new facility that it never once asked for. Why a 'community' club would seek to team up with an organisation which literally takes the piss out of this communtiy repeatedly is beyond me.

[marcoloco]

Irrespective of land values the estimated cost of any new stadium is £10m to £15m. I'd argue availability of suitable sites is as big a problem as cost. Throw in your academy and team building and your looking closer at £13m to £18m investment. That's a serious ask of any owner with little hope of recovering any investment. Whilst charity can go so far there's still a need to be sensible.

Of course the best players want to play in the best grounds but salary, professional day to day facilities, and other factors such as housing, education for their families will come into play also.

We both agree that there is 3 parts of the puzzle. I agree that you can't leave any out. Its all about how and when you can deliver those 3 parts. Many teams move forward with a plan and build up but you are suggesting we deliver all 3 parts at once. I just find that a big ask for a club run on a tight budget and kept afloat by volunteers.

POD has more than enough money to do all of the above. The guy sold a business for £2bn ! It's obviously up to him what he chooses to spend it on, but I suspect he's already spent millions bankrolling the team for years now anyway - and had only an FAI Cup so far to show for it, when the same money could've gone towards a long-term home for the club.

A financially astute way to do a new stadium for me would be :

1) Work with the Council to develop Templemore Complex as a mixed-use sports campus and civic stadum.
- The Council are already going to have to spend something like £25-39m on the place as it is, so combining that spend with money from the DCFC/POD and development gain from the houses planned nearby would deliver a good war chest for a great new facility.

2) With Brandywell no longer needed as DCFC's ground, turn it into the Academy location.
- Right in the heart of great footballing areas like Brandywell, Bogside and Creggan . And a facility that already largely exists, so would need only limited addiitonal expenditure to be a good Academy.
- Then the money that was planned to be spent on building a new Academy facility from scratch could be transferred over to the stadium build at Templemore.
- This would also keep the club's connection with the Brandywell site going for those for which that isn important. Ad the club;s underage and womens' teams could play there too, along with the D&D etc as currently.

The current club plan is to progress the Academy with the University of Ulster. And personally speaking I feel uncomfortbale with Derry City teaming up with an organisation who have spent decades breaking promises to the people of this city, who continue to gaslight us about university development here, and who put 15,000 students into Belfast wihtout that city asking and now claim they can't have 10,000 in Derry despite teling us they would repeatedly. University developoment is the Number 1 economic priority for this city, and has been for at least 26yrs. UU are a bunch of charlatans who treat us all like mugs whilst refusing to deliver on that promise. They are therefore literally holding this city back economically whilst lavishing £400m on Belfast with a new facility that it never once asked for. Why a 'community' club would seek to team up with an organisation which literally takes the piss out of this communtiy repeatedly is beyond me.

Good points and suggestions.

But you continue to assume that POD has a strong desire to spend £15m (on top of many more £££ invested to date) on building the club. Am I the only one that thinks that's not practical?

Also, your plan requires partnership with Council both at Templemore and Brandywell. Council own both sites and I can't see that changing. So are you not just moving the deck chairs around? I suspect the partnership with the University is similar. They own the land and wont sell it but can benefit from a partnerhship with Derry and visa versa.

Which brings me back to an earlier point. There's not many suitable sites available where the current owners would be willing to sell which does restrict our options. Derry has the coastline and a border to contend with and a geographic preference to be situated in the City side close to the donegal hinterland where it attracts many players.

[stevebradley]

Good points and suggestions.

But you continue to assume that POD has a strong desire to spend £15m (on top of many more £££ invested to date) on building the club. Am I the only one that thinks that's not practical?

Also, your plan requires partnership with Council both at Templemore and Brandywell. Council own both sites and I can't see that changing. So are you not just moving the deck chairs around? I suspect the partnership with the University is similar. They own the land and wont sell it but can benefit from a partnerhship with Derry and visa versa.

Which brings me back to an earlier point. There's not many suitable sites available where the current owners would be willing to sell which does restrict our options. Derry has the coastline and a border to contend with and a geographic preference to be situated in the City side close to the donegal hinterland where it attracts many players.

Any arrangeemnt re Templemore would obviously be open to discussion and negotuation. As things currenrlty stand, the council needs to spend a lot of money it doesn't have on the facility - so I susepct they'd be very open to talking aboiut anythign that would help with that. The club could take a long lease on the stadium aspect, for example. You wouldn't put provate money into a new stadium there and then leave it all in council owneship. That's not realistic, and not how the world works. If you put money in then you expect to get somethign in-return. And if the coucil got a great facility for the city - either for less money than it had planned, or even just a much better facility for the same money - then why wouldn't they go with it ? It wouldn't at all be like the current situation re the Brandywell, where we put in nothing to it so own nothing.

The bottom line is that we don't know the extet of POD's appetite is for putting money into the club. What we do know is that he has what by any standards is a vast sum of money. And also that he has been consistently very generous to the club for many years now (and could probably have built a stadium already with the money he's spent on players over the years?). So I don't see why he would suddenly put the spending brakes on. That would be rather worrying if he did (more on this in a minute).

To avoid us going around in circles on all of this, there are 2 related points to raise here :

1) EUROPEAN FOOTBALL
- POD has said publicly that he wants us to get to the group stages in Europe. And that is certainly not an unrelaistic prospect in the Conference League.
- If we got to even just the last qualifying round BEFORE that stage, we wouldn't be able to play games at the Brandywell.
- To host thsoe games and group stage fixtures you need 8,000 seated capacity plus a host of other things the Brandywell doesn't have currently, or realistically even the potential to provide = media space, car parking, VIP areas, referee changing rooms, segregated away stands etc etc.
- So if we make progress in Europe - and again, I see no reason why we can't emulate Rovers and do so in the next 5yrs - then where are we going to play our games ? Because it can';t and won't be the Brandywell. the only place it could be would be Dublin. This is a huge potential issue for both the club and the city, and rather than wait until the problem arises (by when it'll be far too late) thyere needs to be some contingency planning put into it sooner rather than later.
- And what if we got to such a stage in Europe regularly ? LOI clubs have done it 4 times in the last 10yrs now, so it;s not an uncommon event. Even Linfield nearly made European group stages last year.

2) A FINANCIAL TICKING TIME BOMB ?
- Curretly POD is spending his money on the team and on an Academy.
- The team won't deliver long-term financial sustainability, as that is only as good as the length of contract you have with your players. If anything it presents a financial risk, as if the money stops then we're stuck with contracts we can no longer honour.
- An Academy will bring us some sell-on fees etc, but nowhere near the kind of sums that we will require to be sustainable (and certainly not with any degree of reliability, as you can't guarantee when or for how much you'll develop and sell on a player).
- Realsitically neither the current nor the redeveloped capacity of the Brandywell will give us sufficient gate income to be financially sustainable either. And we can't use the Brandywell to make us any further non-gate money either - neither on matchday nor on the rest of the week. As it's not our's.
- So a crucial point is this. At some stage PODs money tap will stop. t is inevitable. Jack Walker loved Blackburn Rovers all his life and put the money in to get them to a Premier League title in 1995. But his money inevitable stopped, and they've been nowhere near that level since (and were in the 3rd tier 5yrs ago). Even if POD bequeathed a load of money in a trust fund for the club, because we spend more every year than we are able to bring in - sooner or later even that would all be spent. So what happens then ? Are we essentially just buying up whatever silverware and glory we can from his wallet until the inevitable point that we either go bust or go back to mediocrity yet again (or both) ? If not - then how financially will we avoid that?
- This is the problem with the Brandywell for me. It''s caapcity, even when extended, will be too constrained to deliver sufficient gate receipts to get us closer to being financially sustainable. And we can't use the stadium to generate other decent sums of revenue beyond that either. So what is the long-ter plan to make the club pay its own way in the world in an inevitable post-POD era ? Do we just pray that someone else in Derry becomes a billionaire and takes over the reigns from POD - and then another one after that, and then another.....
- Are we not just a ticking financial time-bomb now, with one man deciding when the fuse goes off ? And is having a very limited stadium - with low capacity and no other revnue streams - not part of that problem ?

[beanomoracova]

Can't disagree with any of the above.

[marcoloco]

Steve, I don't disagree with the logic nor the idea that Templemore is a fantastic location. To have a larger fit for purpose stadium, that we owned and controlled, without 3rd party interference or restrictions is the holy grail. I also said in an earlier post that failure to plan for the future alongside a lack of experienced personnel within the Club is part of the reason we find ourselves in this conundrum today. Hence, allot of what you are promoting I would support and get right behind and its the bones of a business plan for where we could evolve onto. I'm sure that if Council showed any willingness to sell or enter a partnership on those lands that DCFC would be at the table. There's no doubt about it.

But then the bitter reality sets in and I think it's all fantasy football. Council have no intention of doing anything of the like and have repeatedly promoted their own ideas for Templemore. So again all this hinges on Council helping out the Club and the owner committing serious funds. I also think it's unfair to make any reference of the owner putting the spending breaks on. If anything he's taken the foot off the breaks and has invested in the coaching staff, playing staff and academy.

As you point out the money will stop one day. And when that does any talk of European Group stages and playing in 10k stadium will likely fade also. Take Blackburn. Jack Walker didn't build them a new stadium - he bought them the league instead. When he left their attendances settled down to the long term average and they didn't need a 60k stadium nor could they fill one.

So fo me its about sustainable growth and long term viability. I do think if we can get close to 8k at the Brandywell that would satisfy our weekly needs for many years to come.

[Keyser Soze]

But can we ever get to 8k at our current location? I don't think it's physically possible.

And if its not possible, then it still means that if we progress as a team and get into a group stage in Europe, we wouldn't be playing at home and probably have to suffer the indignity of asking our fans to travel to the likes of Tallaght to support their team in Europe.

[marcoloco]

But can we ever get to 8k at our current location? I don't think it's physically possible.

And if its not possible, then it still means that if we progress as a team and get into a group stage in Europe, we wouldn't be playing at home and probably have to suffer the indignity of asking our fans to travel to the likes of Tallaght to support their team in Europe.

It's been discussed earlier in the thread but 8k should be possible at the Brandywell but obviously would require some of the lands currently in use by the doggy men (ie for a decent sized stand behind the goal). If that ever happened it would also shield us for the wind, snow and rain coming in from that side.

[stevebradley]

But can we ever get to 8k at our current location? I don't think it's physically possible.

And if its not possible, then it still means that if we progress as a team and get into a group stage in Europe, we wouldn't be playing at home and probably have to suffer the indignity of asking our fans to travel to the likes of Tallaght to support their team in Europe.

It's been discussed earlier in the thread but 8k should be possible at the Brandywell but obviously would require some of the lands currently in use by the doggy men (ie for a decent sized stand behind the goal). If that ever happened it would also shield us for the wind, snow and rain coming in from that side.

In otherwords - it probably isn't possible. The time to relocate the greyhound track was when the stadium was refurbished in 2017. That was the original plan, but the doggymen rattled the councillors and they got the council to change tact. They're not going to go through all that again. The track is where it is now, and so seems likely to stay there.

The bottom line is that Derry-Strabane Counci is skint and already has by-far the highest rates in NI. The council is also predicted to have a stagnant or declining population over the next 20yrs, so its ratedbase isn't going to grow - whilst the cost of everything it does will. They're not going to pay for Brandywell Stadium to have any significant work done to it again so close to having spent £7m on it. We're largely stuck with it as it - with the Mark Farren Stand hopefully completed eventually via Stomront money, and the club/POD paying for a small stand at the Brandywell Road end. Combinednthat won't get us to 8,000 seats, nevermond all the other stuff that's required for Europe. I don't think it's realistic to expect the council to have any appetite to spend more than just small sums of money on the stadium for the foreseeable future - probably 10 ore more years at least - because they can rightly say that they've done their bit already. It's not the council's job to look after a football club that takes in approx £50,000 on the gate at every game for 20+ games a year, and then pays only a tiny fraction of that back in rent.

[stevebradley]

Steve, I don't disagree with the logic nor the idea that Templemore is a fantastic location. To have a larger fit for purpose stadium, that we owned and controlled, without 3rd party interference or restrictions is the holy grail. I also said in an earlier post that failure to plan for the future alongside a lack of experienced personnel within the Club is part of the reason we find ourselves in this conundrum today. Hence, allot of what you are promoting I would support and get right behind and its the bones of a business plan for where we could evolve onto. I'm sure that if Council showed any willingness to sell or enter a partnership on those lands that DCFC would be at the table. There's no doubt about it.

I'm sorry ML, but I think you're completely wrong here. All the evidence is that POD and the club have zero interest in looking anywhere other than the Brandywell (or at least did until very recently anyway. Hopefully the increased demand is forcing a rethink). They couldn't have been any clearer on this when they spent years shutting down any talk of alternative stadium locations by describing Brandywell publicly as "the only show in town"

But then the bitter reality sets in and I think it's all fantasy football. Council have no intention of doing anything of the like and have repeatedly promoted their own ideas for Templemore. So again all this hinges on Council helping out the Club and the owner committing serious funds. I also think it's unfair to make any reference of the owner putting the spending breaks on. If anything he's taken the foot off the breaks and has invested in the coaching staff, playing staff and academy.

I honestly think you're way off the mark here too ML. What is the council's plan for Templemore ? They don't seem to have one. They haven't made it public if they do. And they certainly don't have the money to deliver on any plan that may exist anyway. I honestly think that if POD approached them about a mixed-use facility/sports campus at Templemore, that they'd bite his hand off. Because at the moment Templemore is an expensive problem for them that they don't have the money to properly fix.

As you point out the money will stop one day. And when that does any talk of European Group stages and playing in 10k stadium will likely fade also. Take Blackburn. Jack Walker didn't build them a new stadium - he bought them the league instead. When he left their attendances settled down to the long term average and they didn't need a 60k stadium nor could they fill one.

Blacburn never needed, wanted or suggested a 60,000 seater stadium though, so it's a fairly spurious analogy. Ewood Park has a capacity of 32,000 in a town with less than 150,000 people (the same size as the Derry-Strabane Council area). They don't need a bigger ground, and never have, which is why Walker didn't spend any money on one. I'm sure if they'd been faced with the sort of capacity constraints we are then he WOULD have done something about it.

So fo me its about sustainable growth and long term viability. I do think if we can get close to 8k at the Brandywell that would satisfy our weekly needs for many years to come.

How can we have sustainable growth and long-term viability playing in what will be one of the smaller grounds in the PD, with a team on professional contracts ? It just doesn't add up. Gate receipts will only ever be part of the income a football club in Ireland receives - but an important part none-the-less. And bigger gates increase your sponsorship etc etc. Plus with your own stadium you can also use the facility fully on matchnights and non-matchdays to make additional revenue and build good links with the communtiy, whereas we can't do any of that. I don't see how we can become a sustainable or competitively viable club in the long term without a stadium that has a capacity of at least 6,000 or 7,000 - which wouldn't allow the other revenue and community activity if we don't own it. And that's without factoring in any future growth periods for Irish football e.g. the inevitable point at which an All-Island League happens.

[marcoloco]

It's difficult to really know what plans exist for the future. We are all agreed that the current Stadium capacity and set up (grass pitch) is not sufficient or sustainable. The time for action was years ago but nothing happened. No vision and no urgency. I think that is slowly changing for the reasons you've mentioned. Growing crowds, potential of Europe and even an outside chance of an All Ireland competition. Also, I agree with all the socio-economic analysis. Council are in a tight spot no doubt about it.

But there's a few things i'd hang my hat on. If POD was looking at alternatives to the Brandywell we'll be the last to find out. He's not silly enough to set that hare running so the mantra will always be "Brandywell is the only show in town". As for the Council i'm near certain they do not want to give up control of lands at Templemore. Not least as they'd lose their only viable tenant at the Brandywell in return for a stadium that is used for D&D games.

I'd even say there's more chance of the Council selling the Brandywell and showgrounds to the Club so that they can incur the costs of future expansion works than allowing them to take control of the playing fields at Templemore.

[brendanp]

GOIRT ORGA ..TG4 ..9.30pm ..3part series on the worlds greatest sporting arenas, from the Azteca in Mexico to the Ryan McBride Brandywell Stadium

[Keyser Soze]

The Brandywell features in tonight's episode.

[rodgers]

It was a very good piece I thought. Shame they couldn't show Duffy's goal itself!

[stevebradley]

It was a very good piece I thought. Shame they couldn't show Duffy's goal itself!

I caught most of it, and it was very good. They probably didn't want to have to pay whoever has the rights for the goal

[stevebradley]

The below article from yesterday's Irish Examiner is very interesting. It claims Waterford feel the RSC is a constraint on their ambitions, and are thinking of having their own stadium in the medium to long-term.

If you look at the reasons why they are frustrated with the RSC, they're almost all issues that we face too e.g. an inabiity to do what they want at the venue, inability to broaden the matchday experience with food offering, bars etc.

As a city, Waterford has half the population of Derry - though to their credit the club has 1,300 season ticket holders in the First Division. As the article says, they're also putitng in a lot of professional staff to grow the club as well.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/bus ... 99302.html

Ian Mallon: Are Waterford set to call time on RSC to achieve goals?
The Pitch understands that the club’s medium to long-term objective may lie elsewhere.

FOR 30 years the Regional Sports Centre (RSC) has been home to Waterford football – but just seven months into a more professional era of ownership at the club, the ground is no longer fit-for-purpose.

The new administration is frustrated with the lack of access to the venue for commercial and community activity, due to its shared tenancy agreement with Waterford City and County Council.

That has resulted in Chairman and owner Andy Pilley being hindered in replicating many of the successes at Fleetwood Town, where retail, hospitality and community are central to the growth of his EFL League One side.

While Waterford is currently negotiating an extension of the leasehold with the local authority, The Pitch understands that the club’s medium to long-term objective may lie elsewhere.

While nobody internally is talking about it, I understand that a possibility of a new state-of-the-art stadium for Waterford FC is becoming a serious consideration.

Early estimates of approximately €25-30m for such a facility have been mentioned and while the cost is extraordinary in League of Ireland terms, the long-term benefits would represent enormous possibility.

So what are the key issues?

Firstly there is the problem with even the most basic requirement, establishing a fully functioning club shop at the RSC.

For a retail unit to operate successfully it must be accessible to the public at least five days a week, and should also contain a ticket office which is open throughout the week.

Waterford is currently in the final phases of preparing such a unit outside the RSC which would provide these functions, but ideally it needs to be part of the infrastructure of the stadium.

Then there is ‘Fan Experience’, an area where Fleetwood Town has excelled and developed over Andy Pilley’s almost two decades (and six promotions from the lower leagues) in charge on the Lancashire coast.

Matchdays at Fleetwood Town’s Highbury Stadium begin long before kick-off with food and beverages, with entertainment and DJs on hand to provide a sense of atmosphere and occasion to the fans and wider community.

The club also provides restaurant and bistro facilities, coffee shops and other amenities which it cannot operate at the RSC.

Such planning requires total control of the site, which Waterford cannot achieve currently, unless the council sells the land to the club – a most unlikely scenario given its shared use with the Local Sports Partnerships (Athletics and other sports).

Waterford FC is further frustrated by ongoing negotiations with Waterford City and County Council over a new lease for the venue, which it needs in place for its short-term sporting aims, in spite of any long-term objectives.

As far back as last July, before Pilley bought the club for an estimated €1.3m, the council told The Pitch: “Waterford City and County Council values WFC as a primary tenant and welcomes the opportunity to continue the long-standing arrangement with the club.

“We are finalising the lease with a long term expected (50 years is in current draft) and there are no issues to other users such as the Athletic Club.”

While the Chairman and his team have already achieved huge strides in such a short space of time to restore confidence in a once seriously-distressed asset, turning the commercial wheel is almost impossible.

Certainly the audience is there, with up to 1,300 season tickets already sold this year for a team languishing in the second tier of Irish football.

Servicing these valuable fans and the more casual matchday supporters would prove golden, so much so the club has even considered putting in an offer for the nearby vacant Yellow House pub – ultimately it was too small and too unfit for requirements.

Despite the challenges facing Pilley and the CEO of Fleetwood Town Steve Kurwood, a fellow board member at Waterford, there is considerable optimism on the ground.

There have been a series of eye-catching appointments announced in recent weeks, chief amongst them the hiring of a full-time head of operations - Marc O’Donovan-Wyatt - a respected UK-based football business consultant from Cork.

The club is currently recruiting a community development officer, with a support role set to be advertised, and it will introduce other executive positions independent of Fleetwood Town in the short to medium term.

These activities follow the impressive appointment of Jonathan Walters as director of football for Waterford (and Fleetwood), who has been charged with overseeing promotion to the Premier Division.

Team performance is an issue. Despite heavy investment during the close season, they are already eight points off leaders Galway United, in fourth place of Division One.

Across the pond Fleetwood Town continues to progress, last weekend beating Derby County two-nil at Pride Park in front of 27,000 fans.

Pilley owns two other teams in Dubai and one in South Africa, but the purchase of Waterford could yet prove the jewel in the crown if European football is achieved quickly.

Where that jewel sits in the city of Waterford is not clear.

[Keyser Soze]

It's all about ambition isn't it?

I think Derry as a club were just happy to have a cheap stadium to play at, with most of the associated costs picked up by the council.

There was no vision, no long term plan to look at what the club was going to do about their 'home' into the future, and we now face the prospect of an expanding club constrained by the stadium.

The chairman has a medium to long term plan to make the football club bigger and better, and to try to reach new levels we have never seen before. But it's clear we can't do it where we are, unless some serious construction work is carried out.

Maybe as SteveB said in the past, we had to prioritise a ground over the team going back a decade or more, even if it meant not competing for a while. You have to start somewhere. And unfortunately just sitting about hoping Stormont will give you some scraps from the table to complete the MF stand, or build another third on to it, isn't going to cut it.

[rodgers]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65592682

Larne have to play elsewhere this year.

[Paddydcfc2010]

Will probably be the same for us and Dundalk.