Brandywell Stadium Development

[brandyball]

So Coleraine have published a business plan for their new stadium which is an interesting read. This project is reliant on grant funding from Stormont but here's a few of their objectives...

Long Term
• Develop a national stadium for the North West at the The Showgrounds.
• Develop an all-seater family safe stadium to accommodate 6,000 to 8,000 spectators.
• Attract greater numbers to sporting events within The Showgrounds.
• Provide employment opportunities with the Coleraine Central/Cross Glebe area on both
a full time and part time basis.

Given that we too are in the North West and we too are reliant on grant funding to complete the MF stand I do wonder who will get the funds first. I recall being told our funding was secured but then that was a half truth. Hopefully, the Conncil and local politicians have not taken their eye of the prize for Derry.

Ermmmm. I would guess Coleraine.

[TenaciousDee]

Coleraine will be seen as a greater need to finance over Derry at present as the first phase has been delivered at Brandywell. I was working in The Showgrounds during the Milk Cup/Super Cup in 2012 and the journalists in the press box were discussing the grounds state. Allegedly the foundations at the ground have been cracked for some time and the terraces were close to being condemned. In saying that I am unsure as to whether any work was conducted after that because I personally couldn't care less.

[marcoloco]

Colraine are being proactive here which is what you need to do if you are looking for grants. They have split the works into 3 phases which includes the adjoining training pitch and community hub. They will pay for phase 1 themselves and hope to attract funding for phases 2 and 3. I don't disagree that they may have a need but by the same rationale could be applied to Derry with their 'unfinished stand'. Coleraine also believe that the nearest stadium to them is in Belfast and not up the road in Derry... but then they go on to state that the capacity at the Brandywell is 6k seated which presumably is based on a completed MF stand?

Colraine state:

The Showgrounds currently has an overall capacity of 4,536 but due to the age of the
facilities its licence has been reduced to less than 4,536 maximum Irish League games.
An immediate need of The Showgrounds is to upgrade and enhance the current
facilities to ensure that the licence maximum returns to 8,000.

A longer term need for The Showgrounds will be to upgrade it into 8,000 all-seater
family safe stadium that could host major sporting and entertainment events. The
nearest stadium is the Kingspan Stadium in Belfast with a capacity of 18,000 (50/50
seated and standing), the National Football Stadium at Windsor Park with a capacity
of 18,500 and the new Brandywell Stadium will has a capacity of approximately 6,000
seated.

[TenaciousDee]

Coleraine also believe that the nearest stadium to them is in Belfast and not up the road in Derry.

To a degree they are not wrong. Coleraine currently have no pitch as it has been dug up and are unable to fulfill their home European tie at the Showgrounds. Allegedly they inquired about using the Brandywell but were told by someone (IFA or UEFA) it can't happen because with Stute not playing there this season the Brandywell is deemed as a ground out of Coleraine's league jurisdiction. Years ago like when $h€l$ played Rangers, permission was seeked for a ground away from potential danger (match was played in England instead of Dublin) fixtures can be moved with approval from UEFA. In fact PO'D told my father at the end of 2016 that City asked to use Cliftonville's ground when they were applying for UEFA Licence for the 2017 fixture (that ended up being played in Sligo) but were told no for the same reason. Looks likely Coleraine will ask to use Mourneview when applying for the UEFA Licence.

[marcoloco]

Coleraine also believe that the nearest stadium to them is in Belfast and not up the road in Derry.

To a degree they are not wrong. Coleraine currently have no pitch as it has been dug up and are unable to fulfill their home European tie at the Showgrounds. Allegedly they inquired about using the Brandywell but were told by someone (IFA or UEFA) it can't happen because with Stute not playing there this season the Brandywell is deemed as a ground out of Coleraine's league jurisdiction. Years ago like when $h€l$ played Rangers, permission was seeked for a ground away from potential danger (match was played in England instead of Dublin) fixtures can be moved with approval from UEFA. In fact PO'D told my father at the end of 2016 that City asked to use Cliftonville's ground when they were applying for UEFA Licence for the 2017 fixture (that ended up being played in Sligo) but were told no for the same reason. Looks likely Coleraine will ask to use Mourneview when applying for the UEFA Licence.

The complexities of hosting football and all that was pre-Brexit. Geographically we are closer than Belfast if the business case was made for a North West regional stadium for non Coleraine related events. But jurisdiction wide Belfast is closer... though that may well change too if Institute return to the Waterside and their possible new stadium at Clooney Road. Also interesting to see Coleraine aspire to have an 8K stadium.

[marcoloco]

Wondering if and when SDLP / SF can "deliver" the remainder of the New Stand at the Brandywell?

Given that they are bickering over who takes the credit for "delivering" Casement Park I wonder can they do anything for us?

Or to put it another way - would they allow 1/3 of Casement Park to be built out and then left?

[stevebradley]

Wondering if and when SDLP / SF can "deliver" the remainder of the New Stand at the Brandywell?

Given that they are bickering over who takes the credit for "delivering" Casement Park I wonder can they do anything for us?

Or to put it another way - would they allow 1/3 of Casement Park to be built out and then left?

My fear is that we'll either get nothing - or not enough - from the sub-regional funding that's available from Stormont. As a result, the Brandywell will just remain broadly as it is for the foreseeable future. With the argument being that it's fit for purpose, does the job, and almost never sells out.

Obviously I'd love to be proven wrong on this. But the money available from Stormont is very limited and continually being eroded by inflation in building costs, The queue of clubs looking to access it is long, and we won't exactly have the strongest case to make in comparison to a lot of others. And the council won't want to complete the Mark Farren stand itself if it can't get Stormont to pay for it.

All of which reinforces the argument that we need to get out of the Brandywell and develop our own future in our own stadium - which even a small club like Institute can see is vital. But sadly we won't, because it's much easier to just stay where we are and grumble at the council rather than make our own way in the world.

[marcoloco]

My fear is that we'll either get nothing - or not enough - from the sub-regional funding that's available from Stormont. As a result, the Brandywell will just remain broadly as it is for the foreseeable future. With the argument being that it's fit for purpose, does the job, and almost never sells out.

This is where we need our local politicians working for us. Not just jumping on the Casement Park bandwagon. If was farcical to build out 1/3 of a stand to start with and not even bother putting in the foundations for the remaining 2/3. This means the cost of doing the work will be more compleex and more expensive. A short sighted shit show by all involved. Club not included obv.

Obviously I'd love to be proven wrong on this. But the money available from Stormont is very limited and continually being eroded by inflation in building costs, The queue of clubs looking to access it is long, and we won't exactly have the strongest case to make in comparison to a lot of others. And the council won't want to complete the Mark Farren stand itself if it can't get Stormont to pay for it.

I get that others want their share. But do we complete one project or give Coleraine half a stadium and Larne 1/3 of a stand and so on... its nonsesne. And SF / SDLP need to call it out as nonsesne.

All of which reinforces the argument that we need to get out of the Brandywell and develop our own future in our own stadium - which even a small club like Institute can see is vital. But sadly we won't, because it's much easier to just stay where we are and grumble at the council rather than make our own way in the world.

I dont agree with you here. It would be madness to have the Brandywell and not use it. Institute will be gone in the next few years and its crazy to have a decent stadium and no tenant. I think the Club's focus is on delivering a suitable training facility. That will give them a degree of independence and will deliver better value for money. Another obv fall back of a new stadium is the lack of viable, available sites that would not be snapped by other commercial developers.

[stevebradley]

This is where we need our local politicians working for us. Not just jumping on the Casement Park bandwagon. If was farcical to build out 1/3 of a stand to start with and not even bother putting in the foundations for the remaining 2/3. This means the cost of doing the work will be more compleex and more expensive. A short sighted shit show by all involved. Club not included obv.

The local politicians can help to san extent - but only to an extent. The problem was that Martin McGuinness gave us a cast-iron promise of funding from Stormont for the Brandywell, which he wasn't in a position to honour. And it seems that everyone just sat back and took that as mission accomplished. There is usually a lot of politics involved in doling out money, but this funding will be a rare example of one which has to be proven to be needs-based and done fairly, as Crusaders successfully challenged an earlier version of the funding process in court. The SF Communities Minister acknowledged herself that it has to be a transparent process. If Brandywell gets funding whilst other clubs feel they haven't been treated fairly, there's a good chance that legal challenges would ensue - holding everything up and eroding the available money even further. So the scope for politicians to show favour towards Derry in this process is limited IMO. I'm also concerned that this money won' get allocated before the May 2022 election, and we could then end up with a Unionist Communities Minister instead, who would have zero interest in doing the Brandywell a favour.

I get that others want their share. But do we complete one project or give Coleraine half a stadium and Larne 1/3 of a stand and so on... its nonsesne. And SF / SDLP need to call it out as nonsesne.

The problem is that what Derry currently have - whilst by no means ideal - is fit for purpose and meets our needs. That's the reality. I've mentioned before that the club should strategically have been packing Brandywell out one way or another for every game (obviously pre-Covid) to strengthen the case for the stadium to get finished. Any objective person looking at the Brandywell now would acknowledge that it's actually one of the best stadiums in NI already, and does the job perfectly.

I dont agree with you here. It would be madness to have the Brandywell and not use it. Institute will be gone in the next few years and its crazy to have a decent stadium and no tenant. I think the Club's focus is on delivering a suitable training facility. That will give them a degree of independence and will deliver better value for money. Another obv fall back of a new stadium is the lack of viable, available sites that would not be snapped by other commercial developers.

Derry City FC needs to look after itself and its own interests - not the Council's. The Council was guilty of short-sightedness by refusing to consider anywhere else for the stadium IMO (a mixed-use facility at a redeveloped Complex would've made much more sense). We are hampered by not having a facility of our own, combined with its ownership being in the hands of a council who have a very limited vision of what the facility could be (contrast with South Dublin Co Council and Tallaght). We make very little matchday income out of the Brandywell beyond ticket sales, and zero non-matchday revenue. And I guarantee you that in about 20yrs time there'll be a row again with the council about another upgrade to the Brandywell (the Southend Stand will be 50yrs old by then).

Strabane Athletic have only been in existence for 11 years, and the council has just built a new stand at their Melvin Arena ground so they can qualify for promotion to the 3rd tier of the IL (they couldn't go up in 2019 as their facilities weren't up to scratch). Rather than rest on their laurels with that, they've instead they've got ambitious plans to create their own fantastic new facility elsewhere in the town. If that was Derry City we'd just sit back and continue using the council-owned Melvin facility, and bark at them every so often to spend some more money on it for us.

We are masters of neither our own destiny nor our own incomes. And it is holding us back in a league where many of our main competitors have much bigger stadia in the pipeline (Tallaght will be 10,000 capacity in a year ; Dalymount will be at least 6,000 shortly).

[marcoloco]

This is where we need our local politicians working for us. Not just jumping on the Casement Park bandwagon. If was farcical to build out 1/3 of a stand to start with and not even bother putting in the foundations for the remaining 2/3. This means the cost of doing the work will be more compleex and more expensive. A short sighted shit show by all involved. Club not included obv.

The local politicians can help to san extent - but only to an extent. The problem was that Martin McGuinness gave us a cast-iron promise of funding from Stormont for the Brandywell, which he wasn't in a position to honour. And it seems that everyone just sat back and took that as mission accomplished. There is usually a lot of politics involved in doling out money, but this funding will be a rare example of one which has to be proven to be needs-based and done fairly, as Crusaders successfully challenged an earlier version of the funding process in court. The SF Communities Minister acknowledged herself that it has to be a transparent process. If Brandywell gets funding whilst other clubs feel they haven't been treated fairly, there's a good chance that legal challenges would ensue - holding everything up and eroding the available money even further. So the scope for politicians to show favour towards Derry in this process is limited IMO. I'm also concerned that this money won' get allocated before the May 2022 election, and we could then end up with a Unionist Communities Minister instead, who would have zero interest in doing the Brandywell a favour.

I get that others want their share. But do we complete one project or give Coleraine half a stadium and Larne 1/3 of a stand and so on... its nonsesne. And SF / SDLP need to call it out as nonsesne.

The problem is that what Derry currently have - whilst by no means ideal - is fit for purpose and meets our needs. That's the reality. I've mentioned before that the club should strategically have been packing Brandywell out one way or another for every game (obviously pre-Covid) to strengthen the case for the stadium to get finished. Any objective person looking at the Brandywell now would acknowledge that it's actually one of the best stadiums in NI already, and does the job perfectly.

I dont agree with you here. It would be madness to have the Brandywell and not use it. Institute will be gone in the next few years and its crazy to have a decent stadium and no tenant. I think the Club's focus is on delivering a suitable training facility. That will give them a degree of independence and will deliver better value for money. Another obv fall back of a new stadium is the lack of viable, available sites that would not be snapped by other commercial developers.

Derry City FC needs to look after itself and its own interests - not the Council's. The Council was guilty of short-sightedness by refusing to consider anywhere else for the stadium IMO (a mixed-use facility at a redeveloped Complex would've made much more sense). We are hampered by not having a facility of our own, combined with its ownership being in the hands of a council who have a very limited vision of what the facility could be (contrast with South Dublin Co Council and Tallaght). We make very little matchday income out of the Brandywell beyond ticket sales, and zero non-matchday revenue. And I guarantee you that in about 20yrs time there'll be a row again with the council about another upgrade to the Brandywell (the Southend Stand will be 50yrs old by then).

Strabane Athletic have only been in existence for 11 years, and the council has just built a new stand at their Melvin Arena ground so they can qualify for promotion to the 3rd tier of the IL (they couldn't go up in 2019 as their facilities weren't up to scratch). Rather than rest on their laurels with that, they've instead they've got ambitious plans to create their own fantastic new facility elsewhere in the town. If that was Derry City we'd just sit back and continue using the council-owned Melvin facility, and bark at them every so often to spend some more money on it for us.

We are masters of neither our own destiny nor our own incomes. And it is holding us back in a league where many of our main competitors have much bigger stadia in the pipeline (Tallaght will be 10,000 capacity in a year ; Dalymount will be at least 6,000 shortly).

Thanks Steve, that all makes perfect sense. Taking your final point and expanding on it... If you were handed £xm to secure land for a new stadium for the Club where would it be? GAA have gobbled up many of the viable sites and locations like Templemore and Fort Geroge are not on the table. When you consider the geography of the City and the boundaries around us you either need to go out of town to an green field site. This throws up planning problems as there's nothing designated. Site availability is a genuine constraint. Yes Templemore would be everyone's preference but the Council simply wont sanction a sell off. Many of the other Clubs are not as constrained as Derry as the Stadium would realistically need to be on the Cityside.

[stevebradley]

Thanks Steve, that all makes perfect sense. Taking your final point and expanding on it... If you were handed £xm to secure land for a new stadium for the Club where would it be? GAA have gobbled up many of the viable sites and locations like Templemore and Fort Geroge are not on the table. When you consider the geography of the City and the boundaries around us you either need to go out of town to an green field site. This throws up planning problems as there's nothing designated. Site availability is a genuine constraint. Yes Templemore would be everyone's preference but the Council simply wont sanction a sell off. Many of the other Clubs are not as constrained as Derry as the Stadium would realistically need to be on the Cityside.

I refuse to accept that there is nowhere in the city that could host a new stadium. There is land out the Buncrana Road, for example, which the club did own a section of in the 1980s until we lost it the first time we went bust. The club and politicians should have put pressure on the council over Templemore Complex instead of saying Brandywell was 'the only show in town', as a mixed-use facility for the region there would have been a better solution for absolutely everyone (including Brandywell residents - who then could have got employment, housing and community facilities at Brandywell Stadium instead).

And then there's Celtic Park, with the GAA stating that Dungiven is going to be their main county base moving forwards. The County Board should be approached to sound out the possibility of them being interested in selling that ground at any point in the future.

Talk of the GAA 'gobbling up' sites in the city is also wide of the mark in my view btw. They've got a couple, and worked damn hard to get them and then to redevelop them. DCFC could do a lot worse than take a leaf out of the GAA's philosophy of tenacious self help.

[brandyball]

Thanks Steve, that all makes perfect sense. Taking your final point and expanding on it... If you were handed £xm to secure land for a new stadium for the Club where would it be? GAA have gobbled up many of the viable sites and locations like Templemore and Fort Geroge are not on the table. When you consider the geography of the City and the boundaries around us you either need to go out of town to an green field site. This throws up planning problems as there's nothing designated. Site availability is a genuine constraint. Yes Templemore would be everyone's preference but the Council simply wont sanction a sell off. Many of the other Clubs are not as constrained as Derry as the Stadium would realistically need to be on the Cityside.

I refuse to accept that there is nowhere in the city that could host a new stadium. There is land out the Buncrana Road, for example, which the club did own a section of in the 1980s until we lost it the first time we went bust. The club and politicians should have put pressure on the council over Templemore Complex instead of saying Brandywell was 'the only show in town', as a mixed-use facility for the region there would have been a better solution for absolutely everyone (including Brandywell residents - who then could have got employment, housing and community facilities at Brandywell Stadium instead).

And then there's Celtic Park, with the GAA stating that Dungiven is going to be their main county base moving forwards. The County Board should be approached to sound out the possibility of them being interested in selling that ground at any point in the future.

Talk of the GAA 'gobbling up' sites in the city is also wide of the mark in my view btw. They've got a couple, and worked damn hard to get them and then to redevelop them. DCFC could do a lot worse than take a leaf out of the GAA's philosophy of tenacious self help.

Tenacious, over to you.

[marcoloco]

Thanks Steve, that all makes perfect sense. Taking your final point and expanding on it... If you were handed £xm to secure land for a new stadium for the Club where would it be? GAA have gobbled up many of the viable sites and locations like Templemore and Fort Geroge are not on the table. When you consider the geography of the City and the boundaries around us you either need to go out of town to an green field site. This throws up planning problems as there's nothing designated. Site availability is a genuine constraint. Yes Templemore would be everyone's preference but the Council simply wont sanction a sell off. Many of the other Clubs are not as constrained as Derry as the Stadium would realistically need to be on the Cityside.

I refuse to accept that there is nowhere in the city that could host a new stadium. There is land out the Buncrana Road, for example, which the club did own a section of in the 1980s until we lost it the first time we went bust. The club and politicians should have put pressure on the council over Templemore Complex instead of saying Brandywell was 'the only show in town', as a mixed-use facility for the region there would have been a better solution for absolutely everyone (including Brandywell residents - who then could have got employment, housing and community facilities at Brandywell Stadium instead).

And then there's Celtic Park, with the GAA stating that Dungiven is going to be their main county base moving forwards. The County Board should be approached to sound out the possibility of them being interested in selling that ground at any point in the future.

Talk of the GAA 'gobbling up' sites in the city is also wide of the mark in my view btw. They've got a couple, and worked damn hard to get them and then to redevelop them. DCFC could do a lot worse than take a leaf out of the GAA's philosophy of tenacious self help.

Most if not all of the land out the Buncrana Road is owned by housing developers. Agree about Templemore but its a none starter with the Council and even more so now that they've got the Brandywell. Again, Celtic Park would be fantastic option but it remains the home of GAA and not available. The GAA have acquired several pitches across the City and fair play to them. But the GAA is an Island wide set up and we can't expect the same degree of financial, business and strategic thinking. Remember we are still run mainly by volunteers and we can't even manage a club shop in the town centre or a general manger to oversee none footballing matters. I'd love it to be different and share your frustrations but i'm trying to be realistic also. Hence, why I believe the club will focus firstly on a training facility and build from there.

[stevebradley]

Most if not all of the land out the Buncrana Road is owned by housing developers. Agree about Templemore but its a none starter with the Council and even more so now that they've got the Brandywell. Again, Celtic Park would be fantastic option but it remains the home of GAA and not available. The GAA have acquired several pitches across the City and fair play to them. But the GAA is an Island wide set up and we can't expect the same degree of financial, business and strategic thinking. Remember we are still run mainly by volunteers and we can't even manage a club shop in the town centre or a general manger to oversee none footballing matters. I'd love it to be different and share your frustrations but i'm trying to be realistic also. Hence, why I believe the club will focus firstly on a training facility and build from there.

How do you know Celtic Park wouldn't be available ? It's too big and in the wrong place for Derry County Board, who've made it clear they want to expand Dungiven. They've said they want to spend, from memory, something like £3m on Owenbeg, and they'll have to get that cash from somewhere. The GAA nationally is in a bad state financially due to Covid btw, so won't be able to help counties out as much as it perhaps would have previously. Especially as Ulster don't even have the £15m they've committed to Casement, and are likely to have to put in even more now.

As for local GAA clubs having access to more expertise than Derry City. Our Chairman is one of the richest people in Ireland, and a hugely successful international businessman. It just isn't credible to claim that we're the poor relation to parish-based GAA clubs locally, just because they have access to a County Development Officer to advise them on what kind of lottos and prize draws tend to work. GAA clubs largely sink or swim off the back of their own efforts, and they usually spend years if not decades fund-raising and pushing for decent facilities of their own. Unfortunately we've hardly bothered our hole as a club to do anything like that for almost a century now.

[marcoloco]

If Celtic park is available its news to me. Obviously if it is or if its sale is imminent, as you suggest, then by all means I agree the Club should seriously look at acquiring it. As of POD his first priority has been his business interests. As I mentioned before we are staffed by volunteers and don't have a paid GM that i'm aware of that deals with non footballing matters. I do believe we're starting to get our house in order and it's more apparent that POD is no longer happy writing off our annual debt often derived from poor transfer dealings including losing players on free contracts.

[brandyball]

If Celtic park is available its news to me. Obviously if it is or if its sale is imminent, as you suggest, then by all means I agree the Club should seriously look at acquiring it. As of POD his first priority has been his business interests. As I mentioned before we are staffed by volunteers and don't have a paid GM that i'm aware of that deals with non footballing matters. I do believe we're starting to get our house in order and it's more apparent that POD is no longer happy writing off our annual debt often derived from poor transfer dealings including losing players on free contracts.

Is it true E&I was sold for £1.2 Billion?

[stevebradley]

If Celtic park is available its news to me. Obviously if it is or if its sale is imminent, as you suggest, then by all means I agree the Club should seriously look at acquiring it.

I started a thread on this in May = viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16751

The point is that we don't know what the GAA's long-term intentions are regarding Celtic Park, so we should find out as a club. It would be a great alternative to the Brandywell - as it's bigger, less hemmed-in and just that little bit nearer town.

What we DO know is that the Derry County Board have said publicly that they intend to play future games at a redeveloped Owenbeg, rather than Celtic Park. And we also know that the Celtic Park pitch is considered narrower than is ideal for GAA (a legacy of its original role as a football/soccer venue). So an approach to the County Board would seem a realy obvious thing for DCFC to do in my view. Once Owenbeg becomes the main county venue, Celtic Park will become a burden to maintain etc. And the GAA will need millions to fund the intended work at Owenbeg too. So there's possibly a deal to be done here. At the very least it should be explored. If nothing else, then the option of using Celtic Park for European games in future should also be discussed as part of this (working around the latest manifestation of the GAA 'ban' of course). Nothing ventured, and all that.

[marcoloco]

If Celtic park is available its news to me. Obviously if it is or if its sale is imminent, as you suggest, then by all means I agree the Club should seriously look at acquiring it.

I started a thread on this in May = viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16751

The point is that we don't know what the GAA's long-term intentions are regarding Celtic Park, so we should find out as a club. It would be a great alternative to the Brandywell - as it's bigger, less hemmed-in and just that little bit nearer town.

What we DO know is that the Derry County Board have said publicly that they intend to play future games at a redeveloped Owenbeg, rather than Celtic Park. And we also know that the Celtic Park pitch is considered narrower than is ideal for GAA (a legacy of its original role as a football/soccer venue). So an approach to the County Board would seem a realy obvious thing for DCFC to do in my view. Once Owenbeg becomes the main county venue, Celtic Park will become a burden to maintain etc. And the GAA will need millions to fund the intended work at Owenbeg too. So there's possibly a deal to be done here. At the very least it should be explored. If nothing else, then the option of using Celtic Park for European games in future should also be discussed as part of this (working around the latest manifestation of the GAA 'ban' of course). Nothing ventured, and all that.

GAA unwillingness to assist condemned us to a season in Buncrana. Hence, i'll be in shocked if they did anything now that made our life easier should we qualify for Europe. Would love to see it but I wont expect anything.

[stevebradley]

GAA unwillingness to assist condemned us to a season in Buncrana. Hence, i'll be in shocked if they did anything now that made our life easier should we qualify for Europe. Would love to see it but I wont expect anything.

I'm not sure that's fair or accurate Marco. Wasn't the issue that only a GAA Congress could give permission for other games at one of their stadia, and the timescales didn't make getting that possible ?

Anyways - Since then the GAA has had the PR disaster of the Liam Miller tribute match in 2018, which has changed things again on this whole issue. I'm no expert, but I think Rule 42 has since been amended to now give county boards a degree of discretion over opening their stadia up to other sports (?).

As stated on all of this anyway - nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[TenaciousDee]

The Derry GAA board voted it down before it could go to congress.