derrycitychat.com

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:41 am**

If rumours are to be believed, it's already too late.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:06 pm**

Nige92 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:55 pm
PauliAlonso wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:34 am
Nige92 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:09 am It has a touch of the Ten Haag about it. We have a whole league worth of evidence showing one thing
What's the evidence? Ten Hag has taken Utd backwards. Higgins has improved our league performances year-on-year. Our results at the end of the season were bad, yes. But "a whole league worth of evidence"?? We've been first or second in the table for most of the year. Tell me why POD should sack him. And before you do, I'll translate your answer for you - "because a bunch of PL and Football Manager obsessed "supporters" want us to win all games, score all the goals and concede nothing". Before you (and others) call to end a successful start to a young manager's career, look at the numbers, be objective and unbiased.
Pauli I admire the loyalty but I think that loyalty is blinding you to the reality of the situation. I feel Higgins has done a good job across his tenure here but this season has league campaign can be deemed as nothing more than a huge disappointment and ultimate failure. I'm sure he would make that assessment himself.

In my eyes, there is nothing that has improved upon the last season. Cold hard facts show lesser points, more defeats, more draws, more goals conceded and less goals scored. He has failed to address the main issue from last season which was the ability to create good chances consistently. A failure to break teams down. Subjectively, the football on offer has grown stale and has become dull to watch.

I see no improvement, no development from the team. I feel that the team is going backwards and it's the end of a cycle. We spent big on win now contracts and that has ultimately failed to deliver on a league. Winning a league is hard but to be presented with the opportunities we were last season and this season only to fall incredibly short.

He did a great job in the first year, turning the team around and giving us hope. The FAI cup win and European run were brilliant experiences, he might yet help deliver another but I don't think these can mask the overall picture of a team/club that is falling behind yet again.

I think he should walk away, hopefully with a cup win, refresh and go again somewhere else. I just feel his time with Derry is up. I can't see a situation where we battle for 3rd/4th next year, watching the same style of football and the fans just accept that.

Given the financial resources available to Rovers and Pats, along with them being desirable Dublin teams to play for, I feel we're falling behind. Let a new manager come in, refresh things and build something new.

He doesn't need to be sacked but a fresh start for all might be best.

Cold hard facts, yes...but they need to be taken in context. Points tally, goals for and goals against have dropped across almost all teams - should all the other managers be sacked? I mentioned in another topic that I don't think points tally is an honest metric, rather the gap (between ourselves and the eventual league winners) paints a better picture of our performance over the season. If we beat Shels on Friday and Rovers win it, Higgins will have halved the gap again compared to last year.

With hindsight, this was of course a great opporunity for us to win the league and we didn't do it. That has to be seen as a failure. But the same goes for Shels, Rovers, Pats and every other team - should they also change manager because they didn't capitalise on the openness of the league? Or will those clubs take the context of the whole season into account, and previous seasons? I think I know. I've said it often before, if you take Stephen Kenny out of the equation, then in the last 27 years no other manager has given us a title challenge, no other manager has given us two 2nd place finishes, no other manager has improved our league performance year-on-year over his entire contract and no other manager has given us a European run like last season. And this is what annoys me most, is that everyone has forgotten that. The disrespect astounds me. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And you're right that he doesn't need to be sacked, I fully expect he'll walk after the cup final and we'll look back on this in a few years and regret how the fans hounded him out. Because make no mistake, it's the fans that will have driven this. The only way POD pulls the cord is fear of a drop-off in season ticket sales next season (or if we don't make Europe, of course).

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:10 pm**

stevebradley wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:49 pm
Keyser Soze wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:28 pm I can't understand how some folk want to start next season with the same management team?

Honestly I am baffled. They think the season just past was a successful one? One we are happy to say was good enough to have the same again next year?

Good luck selling that to the fans.
And then what's most baffling of all is they blame the fans for not being happy with the whole situation - as if the blame for any of the cliub's ills is the people who pay good money week in week out to watch a deeply under-performing team.

To attack the suporters for where our club is at is unacceptable IMO. They're not the ones who lost and drew a ridiculous number of games we should've won, and lost to a pub team.

Never blamed the fans for the situation that the team finds itself in - I blame the players and the management for that.

I blame the fans for not seeing the bigger picture and supporting the best manager we've had since SK. The fans have turned on Higgins for not winning a league that many fans didn't expect us to win at the outset anyway (go and re-read the Season Predictions thread from earlier in the year). So if I'm attacking the fans for anything, it's their hypocrisy.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:24 pm**

I agree. Sack all the other managers who have similar stats to us approaching the final game of the season. Also sack those who aren't in a Cup final.
I agree it's been an awful season with many missed chances to get ahead of Shels but others failed abysmally too!

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:26 pm**

Nige92 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:58 pm Pauli, what are the reasons for continuing down this path? What are the positives that you can see that I'm missing? I'm genuinely interested to hear your p.o.v.

The main positive for me is that we were involved in a real title challenge this year, right up until the second-last game. When is the last time you experienced that as a Derry CIty supporter? About 20 years. I'm a broken record now (it's becoming my Templemore

) but Higgins' league performances have brought us closer to a league win every year. Of course, that has to ultimately result in a league win sometime soon, but I wouldn't chase him because it didn't happen this year. All I ever want to see from a City team is progress, because some day it'll all fall together and we'll start winning titles, and Higgins has delivered progress every year. Sure, we should have won the league this year, but we didn't. Move on. The problem now is that the noise has been too loud, there are quality players that won't renew and there are quality players that won't consider joining (as it if wasn't hard enough already to convince a player to move to the North West...), the damage has been done. So whoever the new manager will be next year, he won't be starting from the same position that Ruaidhri would have been starting from, if it was Ruaidhri next year....which it won't be.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:26 pm**

Anyway, back on topic.

Fats walks into nearly any team in the league, offering him reduced terms or PAYP would never wash. Todd and Jackie should be brought back into the fold. Would love to see Collie Whelan sign on again but doubt it. He looked like a real player in the bits that he played recently. Wherever he ends up, all the best.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Hoban leave, despite being under contract. Last few weeks he looked like he didn't care. Galway an obvious destination, unless JC ends up at the Brandy.

Patching as good as gone, his face in Dundalk after scoring says everything you need to know there. Davenport, I expect will also be moved on.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:14 pm**

PauliAlonso wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:26 pm Anyway, back on topic.

Fats walks into nearly any team in the league, offering him reduced terms or PAYP would never wash. Todd and Jackie should be brought back into the fold. Would love to see Collie Whelan sign on again but doubt it. He looked like a real player in the bits that he played recently. Wherever he ends up, all the best.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Hoban leave, despite being under contract. Last few weeks he looked like he didn't care. Galway an obvious destination, unless JC ends up at the Brandy.

Patching as good as gone, his face in Dundalk after scoring says everything you need to know there. Davenport, I expect will also be moved on.

Galway were in a title hunt until a few weeks back too such is the drop in standards across the league this season. We all made predictions and some of us were correct (think I said 3rd but 4th looks more likely) but importantly the decline was predictable early on and it’s been proven so.

Hoban, in my opinion, has not been a huge success. I put that down to the manager and our play. We definitely are not getting the best from him and the tactics clearly are not helping.

A new set of ideas could see a big improvement from a player that remains one of the best in the league despite his age.

Others I feel should go - the pitch isn’t helping them and football is a short career so expect big changes this summer.

Davenport however was given 18 months by Higgins. Unless he takes him with him I can’t imagine him departing.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:30 pm**

marcoloco wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:14 pm
PauliAlonso wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:26 pm Anyway, back on topic.

Fats walks into nearly any team in the league, offering him reduced terms or PAYP would never wash. Todd and Jackie should be brought back into the fold. Would love to see Collie Whelan sign on again but doubt it. He looked like a real player in the bits that he played recently. Wherever he ends up, all the best.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Hoban leave, despite being under contract. Last few weeks he looked like he didn't care. Galway an obvious destination, unless JC ends up at the Brandy.

Patching as good as gone, his face in Dundalk after scoring says everything you need to know there. Davenport, I expect will also be moved on.
Galway were in a title hunt until a few weeks back too such is the drop in standards across the league this season. We all made predictions and some of us were correct (think I said 3rd but 4th looks more likely) but importantly the decline was predictable early on and it’s been proven so.

Hoban, in my opinion, has not been a huge success. I put that down to the manager and our play. We definitely are not getting the best from him and the tactics clearly are not helping.

A new set of ideas could see a big improvement from a player that remains one of the best in the league despite his age.

Others I feel should go - the pitch isn’t helping them and football is a short career so expect big changes this summer.

Davenport however was given 18 months by Higgins. Unless he takes him with him I can’t imagine him departing.

I asked previously how many players did we sign that were injured? To take it a step further I wonder how many players he did sign without even seeing them in action?

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:54 pm**

According to some LOI account on FB Bohs seem to be looking at Whelan. Could be true as Reynolds worked with him in the Ireland u-21s and was pivotal in bringing him here in the first place.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:00 pm**

brandyball wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:30 pm To take it a step further I wonder how many players he did sign without even seeing them in action?

Without seeing them live, in-venue? I would say very many. And I expect this is the case for most LOI clubs who sign a player from abroad. This isn't Football Manager. We don't have an active scouting network across the UK. We have access to WyScout and I expect many of our UK-based players were signed based off of the stats and video that WyScout provides, as well as after advice from contacts at other clubs. Is this going to be the next stick to beat Higgins with - that he didn't travel to the UK during our season, to watch potential signings in action? Really?

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:03 pm**

I think Bohs would be the most likely destination for Whelan. Apparently O'Reilly and Farrugia are both on their way to Pats.

I would like us to re sign Coll. I'd imagine Wisdom is on a decent enough short term deal so would let him go. I think Maher will almost certainly leave.

I think if other teams want to offer more for McEleney perhaps let them although they might do a better job of keeping him fit.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 6:45 pm**

I hope we don't sign Patrick McEleney injury pron

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:34 pm**

PauliAlonso wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:00 pm
brandyball wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:30 pm To take it a step further I wonder how many players he did sign without even seeing them in action?
Without seeing them live, in-venue? I would say very many. And I expect this is the case for most LOI clubs who sign a player from abroad. This isn't Football Manager. We don't have an active scouting network across the UK. We have access to WyScout and I expect many of our UK-based players were signed based off of the stats and video that WyScout provides, as well as after advice from contacts at other clubs. Is this going to be the next stick to beat Higgins with - that he didn't travel to the UK during our season, to watch potential signings in action? Really?

Just wondering why he let players go that were as good if not better as the players he replaced them with that's all.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:22 pm**

brandyball wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 7:34 pm
PauliAlonso wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:00 pm
brandyball wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 2:30 pm To take it a step further I wonder how many players he did sign without even seeing them in action?
Without seeing them live, in-venue? I would say very many. And I expect this is the case for most LOI clubs who sign a player from abroad. This isn't Football Manager. We don't have an active scouting network across the UK. We have access to WyScout and I expect many of our UK-based players were signed based off of the stats and video that WyScout provides, as well as after advice from contacts at other clubs. Is this going to be the next stick to beat Higgins with - that he didn't travel to the UK during our season, to watch potential signings in action? Really?
Just wondering why he let players go that were as good if not better as the players he replaced them with that's all.

100%. It’s hard enough finding good players but to then let them walk away is criminal. So many too, many of them local, and deemed not good enough. Now we see them playing in Europe or thriving elsewhere. Crazy.

Posted: **Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:19 pm**

PauliAlonso wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:26 pm
Nige92 wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 4:58 pm Pauli, what are the reasons for continuing down this path? What are the positives that you can see that I'm missing? I'm genuinely interested to hear your p.o.v.
The main positive for me is that we were involved in a real title challenge this year, right up until the second-last game. When is the last time you experienced that as a Derry CIty supporter? About 20 years. I'm a broken record now (it's becoming my Templemore ) but Higgins' league performances have brought us closer to a league win every year. Of course, that has to ultimately result in a league win sometime soon, but I wouldn't chase him because it didn't happen this year. All I ever want to see from a City team is progress, because some day it'll all fall together and we'll start winning titles, and Higgins has delivered progress every year. Sure, we should have won the league this year, but we didn't. Move on. The problem now is that the noise has been too loud, there are quality players that won't renew and there are quality players that won't consider joining (as it if wasn't hard enough already to convince a player to move to the North West...), the damage has been done. So whoever the new manager will be next year, he won't be starting from the same position that Ruaidhri would have been starting from, if it was Ruaidhri next year....which it won't be.

I suppose where we differ is that I don't see where the progress is. Year 1 and 2 it was there to see. Year 3 ended up going stale at the end, it was a hard slog. Year 4, we bring in Hoban and we thought he could be the key to unlucking the door but tbh nothing has moved forward.

Yes we've been challenging for a title but you can't ignore how that challenge played out. 2 wins in 11 matches when challenging for a title simply is not good enough. If that is something you're willing to accept then fair enough but I think that kind of performance does not merit another year in my opinion.

At the start of the year I didn't think we would win the title but things change, we have to deal with the cards that are dealt. Too many times we played the wrong hand.

I really feel that going into next season with Higgins as manager is leaving the possibility of things turning toxic. He's on the back foot from the beginning, if we start badly then the pressure will be on. Sacking him mid season does no one any favours.

I don't think the 'who else would you get' argument flies as plenty of managers could have done a similar job as this season.

Starting the next season with a new man in charge gives a longer rope and people would be more willing to accept a bit of a transition season.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 9:14 am**

PauliAlonso wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:10 pm
stevebradley wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 6:49 pm
Keyser Soze wrote: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:28 pm I can't understand how some folk want to start next season with the same management team?

Honestly I am baffled. They think the season just past was a successful one? One we are happy to say was good enough to have the same again next year?

Good luck selling that to the fans.
And then what's most baffling of all is they blame the fans for not being happy with the whole situation - as if the blame for any of the cliub's ills is the people who pay good money week in week out to watch a deeply under-performing team.

To attack the suporters for where our club is at is unacceptable IMO. They're not the ones who lost and drew a ridiculous number of games we should've won, and lost to a pub team.
Never blamed the fans for the situation that the team finds itself in - I blame the players and the management for that.

I blame the fans for not seeing the bigger picture and supporting the best manager we've had since SK. The fans have turned on Higgins for not winning a league that many fans didn't expect us to win at the outset anyway (go and re-read the Season Predictions thread from earlier in the year). So if I'm attacking the fans for anything, it's their hypocrisy.

What’s the point in looking for comparisons in football to give us hope that a manager could emulate!
Having a manager who didn’t win the league in his 1st year, was runners up in the 2nd & 3rd years, dropped well down the league in 4th year, was one match away from the sack in the 5th year then lead them to an improved position in his 6th year.
Who would be clamouring for his head after such a run - you and me - possibly, along with a vociferous number of supporters but not the majority?
What was the board thinking of at the end of the season?
Well he was still there for his 7th season to start on what was the most phenomenal run of successful title wins, thirteen of them in 21 years before he retired.
The board are not, I hope, short term leaders nor do I hope they pamper to terracing managers.
I’ll be there for the seasons last match to support my club, our players and management.

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:44 am**

I would rest a few key players/starters for next week. Hedge our bets on a cup final win.

Rest
Duffy
Oreilly
Fats
Connolly
Boyce
Hoban
Maher
Mullan

Ryan

Barr Shane Idenen Wisdom

Davenport Diallo

Mcmullan McCourt Robertson

Whealan

Posted: **Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:47 am**

100%.

Why risk more injuries on a dead rubber game.

Not sure what kids we have available but I wouldn't be playing anyone we are reliant on for next week.

Though I wouldn't risk Whealan - he looks sharp and i'd save him for the cup final on grass.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:38 pm**

Any rumours about potential signings? Seen on twitter that we're expected to sign a centre back Rob Slevin from Galway.

Ryan O'Kane apparently leaving Dundalk to join Shelbourne - would've been a good back up for us to Duffy on the left wing?

If Maher leaves, would be looking at someone like James Talbot who is the number 2 at Bohs now? Would be good to see us sign someone like Ellis Chapman or James Clarke for the midfield. Any if Whelan leaves, could we convince someone like Georgie Kelly to join? or Ben Wilson?

Few 'local' players who might be available and we could look at too like Rory Holden, Eoin Kenny, Oisin Gallagher or Shane Ferguson (free agent)

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2024 6:41 pm**

Aaron21 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:38 pm Any rumours about potential signings? Seen on twitter that we're expected to sign a centre back Rob Slevin from Galway.

Ryan O'Kane apparently leaving Dundalk to join Shelbourne - would've been a good back up for us to Duffy on the left wing?

If Maher leaves, would be looking at someone like James Talbot who is the number 2 at Bohs now? Would be good to see us sign someone like Ellis Chapman or James Clarke for the midfield. Any if Whelan leaves, could we convince someone like Georgie Kelly to join? or Ben Wilson?

Few 'local' players who might be available and we could look at too like Rory Holden, Eoin Kenny, Oisin Gallagher or Shane Ferguson (free agent)

Evan McLaughlin would be a great first signing for any new manager.

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