derrycitychat.com

Posted: **Sat Aug 17, 2024 11:05 pm**

Derry won last night. You'd thought we lost reading the comments? Some people are fans but not supporters, as for adding likes of Evan Mclaughln back I'm sure he's reading this forum. He's better of at Cork.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 12:41 am**

Franco wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 11:05 pm Derry won last night. You'd thought we lost reading the comments? Some people are fans but not supporters, as for adding likes of Evan Mclaughln back I'm sure he's reading this forum. He's better of at Cork.

Franco - I travelled to cork last night as I have done for every away game the last 3 seasons… so I think I qualify as a supporter

Surely I am entitled to say that I am absolutely delighted to be in the quarter finals, but also highlighting it was really boring to watch, as most of our games this season have been ?

Evan McLaughlin was outstanding last night and has been one of Cork’s best players this season, I thought the manager said that all the best local players should be playing for City, he is a cracking local player and would be a better option than at least 3 player's who started last night …and also at a fraction of their wages

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:54 am**

Franco wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 11:05 pm Derry won last night. You'd thought we lost reading the comments? Some people are fans but not supporters, as for adding likes of Evan Mclaughln back I'm sure he's reading this forum. He's better of at Cork.

Evan is a real talent. But we all already knew that. If Evan ends up playing in England it would not surprise me. That's how highly I rate him.

Ironically, I think Higgin's has done more for Evan's personal and professional development than he'll realise. By releasing Evan, at such a young age, Evan has taken that disappointment and gone to another massive Club outside of his local safety net and has thrived. He'll grow as a person and a player and now he's adding silverware too.

So life is funny. I'm sure Evan didn't want to leave Derry but I bet he has not regretted joining Cork for a single minute of it since. Had he remained at Derry Higgings would have had him sat on the bench wasting away - his confidence battered and the tactics conservative.

So I hope Evan is reading this. Keep doing what your doing and you'll go far.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:45 am**

On the point about wages... heard a pod cast recently in Scotland with Hamilton Accies manager or coach talking about wages in Ireland. They said most first Div teams in Scotland can't compete with the likes of Derry City. He said he was speaking to a Scottish player at Derry and he could not believe the money he was on at Derry. Makes you think...

Obviously we can only continue paying that money when we pick up a few wins in Europe. There's no way Irish teams can pay big wages based on domestic games alone.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 2:58 pm**

marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:45 am On the point about wages... heard a pod cast recently in Scotland with Hamilton Accies manager or coach talking about wages in Ireland. They said most first Div teams in Scotland can't compete with the likes of Derry City. He said he was speaking to a Scottish player at Derry and he could not believe the money he was on at Derry. Makes you think...

Obviously we can only continue paying that money when we pick up a few wins in Europe. There's no way Irish teams can pay big wages based on domestic games alone.

Heard that- said the player at Derry is on twice as much as his highest paid player. It's probably either McMullen or Mullen so you can guess what our playing budget is like.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:44 pm**

davybhoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 2:58 pm
marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:45 am On the point about wages... heard a pod cast recently in Scotland with Hamilton Accies manager or coach talking about wages in Ireland. They said most first Div teams in Scotland can't compete with the likes of Derry City. He said he was speaking to a Scottish player at Derry and he could not believe the money he was on at Derry. Makes you think...

Obviously we can only continue paying that money when we pick up a few wins in Europe. There's no way Irish teams can pay big wages based on domestic games alone.
Heard that- said the player at Derry is on twice as much as his highest paid player. It's probably either McMullen or Mullen so you can guess what our playing budget is like.

Yip. That's what he said... and that's only possible when you lift a return from Europe. Davenport would be on similar money and no doubt other big players in the squad. If you factor that in to things then our playing budget is huge. Really important that we keep improving, selling out our home games, and advancing in the cup competitions. And probably explains the decision to charge £27 v Bruno's Bar.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:28 pm**

marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:44 pm
davybhoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 2:58 pm
marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 9:45 am On the point about wages... heard a pod cast recently in Scotland with Hamilton Accies manager or coach talking about wages in Ireland. They said most first Div teams in Scotland can't compete with the likes of Derry City. He said he was speaking to a Scottish player at Derry and he could not believe the money he was on at Derry. Makes you think...

Obviously we can only continue paying that money when we pick up a few wins in Europe. There's no way Irish teams can pay big wages based on domestic games alone.
Heard that- said the player at Derry is on twice as much as his highest paid player. It's probably either McMullen or Mullen so you can guess what our playing budget is like.
Yip. That's what he said... and that's only possible when you lift a return from Europe. Davenport would be on similar money and no doubt other big players in the squad. If you factor that in to things then our playing budget is huge. Really important that we keep improving, selling out our home games, and advancing in the cup competitions. And probably explains the decision to charge £27 v Bruno's Bar.

Lads. Sorry to harp on but if POD is bankrolling us at present then the Euro money etc is not a factor EXCEPT that the motivation to advance is missing thus the standard of performances Esp lately Dundalk twice Gibralter. Twice Sligo and 50 mins v `Cork V v v winnable games at this stage of the season

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:59 pm**

eugenio wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:28 pm
marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:44 pm
davybhoy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 2:58 pm

Heard that- said the player at Derry is on twice as much as his highest paid player. It's probably either McMullen or Mullen so you can guess what our playing budget is like.
Yip. That's what he said... and that's only possible when you lift a return from Europe. Davenport would be on similar money and no doubt other big players in the squad. If you factor that in to things then our playing budget is huge. Really important that we keep improving, selling out our home games, and advancing in the cup competitions. And probably explains the decision to charge £27 v Bruno's Bar.
Lads. Sorry to harp on but if POD is bankrolling us at present then the Euro money etc is not a factor EXCEPT that the motivation to advance is missing thus the standard of performances Esp lately Dundalk twice Gibralter. Twice Sligo and 50 mins v `Cork V v v winnable games at this stage of the season

POD is not a dope. Don't fall into the trap that others have by thinking we have a sugar daddy and therefore Europe is not important. He'll make an investment but wants a return - he has high expectations. POD will not put up with ploughing money into a project that is not showing any signs of becoming self sufficient over time.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:06 pm**

Is Higgins contract up at the end of the season or is there one more year?

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:08 pm**

This is his 3rd season, so it's up.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:29 pm**

Keyser Soze wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:08 pm This is his 3rd season, so it's up.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. Higgins is one of the few people who is tied down.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:47 pm**

Marty wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:29 pm
Keyser Soze wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:08 pm This is his 3rd season, so it's up.
Unfortunately, you are wrong. Higgins is one of the few people who is tied down.

He might have a contract for another year but unless he wins the league this year the objective at the start of the project hasn't been met.

Even if we do win the league I think POD needs to think ahead and decide what's the best way of filling the brandywell next season with an extra 3k spaces to shift- as others have said people with season tickets don't even show up to games due to the football being served up. Hard decisions need to be made.

Posted: **Sun Aug 18, 2024 10:09 pm**

marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:59 pm
eugenio wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:28 pm
marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:44 pm

Yip. That's what he said... and that's only possible when you lift a return from Europe. Davenport would be on similar money and no doubt other big players in the squad. If you factor that in to things then our playing budget is huge. Really important that we keep improving, selling out our home games, and advancing in the cup competitions. And probably explains the decision to charge £27 v Bruno's Bar.
Lads. Sorry to harp on but if POD is bankrolling us at present then the Euro money etc is not a factor EXCEPT that the motivation to advance is missing thus the standard of performances Esp lately Dundalk twice Gibralter. Twice Sligo and 50 mins v `Cork V v v winnable games at this stage of
POD is not a dope. Don't fall into the trap that others have by thinking we have a sugar daddy and therefore Europe is not important. He'll make an investment but wants a return - he has high expectations. POD will not put up with ploughing money into a project that is not showing any signs of becoming self sufficient over time.
[/quo. It’s not US IM REFERRING TO It is our management team who seem to be able to get what they want I hope POD calls them and says that the loss of Euro money rests squarely with them I think they are happy he’s a cash cow I hope he acts tests what we want A rocket up the management team

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:39 pm**

At home to Shels in the next round.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:12 pm**

Neutrino wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2024 12:39 pm At home to Shels in the next round.

At least we're at Home.

Posted: **Tue Aug 20, 2024 10:55 pm**

marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:59 pm POD will not put up with ploughing money into a project that is not showing any signs of becoming self sufficient over time.

Really? As things currently stand I can't see how a club that has no assets, limited non-matchday revenue, and matchday income that is almost entirely restricted to ticket sales and sponsor boards can make itself self-sufficient whilst attempting to be competitive.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 8:27 am**

stevebradley wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2024 10:55 pm
marcoloco wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2024 5:59 pm POD will not put up with ploughing money into a project that is not showing any signs of becoming self sufficient over time.
Really? As things currently stand I can't see how a club that has no assets, limited non-matchday revenue, and matchday income that is almost entirely restricted to ticket sales and sponsor boards can make itself self-sufficient whilst attempting to be competitive.

Exactly. Previous post is just typical of the bullshit that is talked. Think you will find that POD has been ploughing money in for well over a decade! Long before we were anywhere near competitive. Without his generosity we would not be anywhere near winning the only 2 trophies available to us to win. And if the current manager is good enough for him, because that’s were this dig is aimed, it’s good enough for me. RAWA.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:35 pm**

Shamrock Rovers, the biggest & most successful Irish Club play in a 10k all seater stadium fit for Europe. It’s owned by Dublin City Council.

The build cost alone is circa 15M. Then you e got the land value. All in you could be looking at 20 to 25 M.

Derry wouldn’t fill 10k seats. We can barely manage 2.5k. So I’d say 8k stadium would be our absolute maximum capacity. Even so, to build new you’d need 10 to 15M and that’s with the land included. So it’s not viable.

Rovers and Dundalk have shown how to make big returns in Europe. Pats are doing the same this season. That’s where the returns are.

Moving players on is another avenue. And currently POD is exploring options for a training camp - again most likely to be on Third party lands. So ownership of assets is not important- having the infrastructure and access to it is.

On top of all that POD has repeatedly stated he wants the club to be financially viable and not reliant on him. If anything happens him the club must stand on its own feet.

Some love having a sugar daddy. Winning appears unimportant to them despite when the club running at a loss and are repeatedly dug out of the mire by their owner. POD doesn’t like that and has stated that we must do better on all fronts.

And finally, if he really wanted he could go and buy land, and build a stadium. So ask yourself why isn’t he doing that? Because ownership is not that important.

So Europe is where the money regardless if you own or lease your stadium & training ground.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 2:04 pm**

marcoloco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 1:35 pm Shamrock Rovers, the biggest & most successful Irish Club play in a 10k all seater stadium fit for Europe. It’s owned by Dublin City Council.

The build cost alone is circa 15M. Then you e got the land value. All in you could be looking at 20 to 25 M.

Derry wouldn’t fill 10k seats. We can barely manage 2.5k. So I’d say 8k stadium would be our absolute maximum capacity. Even so, to build new you’d need 10 to 15M and that’s with the land included. So it’s not viable.

Rovers and Dundalk have shown how to make big returns in Europe. Pats are doing the same this season. That’s where the returns are.

Moving players on is another avenue. And currently POD is exploring options for a training camp - again most likely to be on Third party lands. So ownership of assets is not important- having the infrastructure and access to it is.

On top of all that POD has repeatedly stated he wants the club to be financially viable and not reliant on him. If anything happens him the club must stand on its own feet.

Some love having a sugar daddy. Winning appears unimportant to them despite when the club running at a loss and are repeatedly dug out of the mire by their owner. POD doesn’t like that and has stated that we must do better on all fronts.

And finally, if he really wanted he could go and buy land, and build a stadium. So ask yourself why isn’t he doing that? Because ownership is not that important.

So Europe is where the money regardless if you own or lease your stadium & training ground.

There's a lot to upick here Marco :

1) Rovers have a much bigger fanbase than we do, so bigger revenue through that. Plus they seem to have much more influence over the council that owns their stadium than we do (its South Dublin County Council btw, not Dublin City Council) in terms of using rhe facility, access, playing surface etc.

2) Academy is essential for DCFC, but will not in-itself represent a sustainnable form of revenue. You can't rely on it to generate consistent player sales. So it' should be viewed as a bonus, not a banker.

3) A new stadium for DCFC is NOT unviable. There are a number of models that could be used. At one end, POD has the money to provide a new stadium for the club if he wanted to. He has never shown any interest in doing so however. It's up to him how he wants to spend his own cash - but if I was him I'd be leaving a solid, landmark physical legacy for the club in the form of a fit-for-purpose, future-proof home (we're going to out-grow the Brandywell in the coming decades, and it's still not clear if it can be made compatible for European group stage matches). At the other end is a multi-partner approach to securing a new stadium. This is my preferred option - using Templemore Sports Complex, which nneeds a major refurbishment which the council can;t currently afford. Make it the site of a mixed-use civic stadium ad sports campus - with Derry City having much more control and access over the facility via a long lease. At the moment we can't do aything to create revenue and deepen commuity links for the club at Brandywell outside of a narrow few hourss on matchdays. Yet the Chairman is spending £2m installing a new stand in a facility we don't own and have limited control over - rather tha doing so as part of one we could own either outright or via a long lease. Even Institute are able to come up with a viable proposal for a 2,300 seater new stadium FFS.

4) As we've seen this year, Europe is not a consistent and stable form of income. Just like player saless - it can't be relied upon beyond a very basic level in terms of financial planning and sustainability (e.g. an assumption of only qualifying once every 2 or 3 years, and not making it beyond the first round). Otherwise if you miss out for a year or 2 the wheels come off everything financially. So European football must also be treated as a financial bonus, not a banker.

5) If POD wants the club to be reliant and stad on its own feet, what is the route to achieving that? Where is the evidece of structures ad facilities being put place to achieve that? Do you see ay signs of this currently? All I see is a club that with every year that passes is requiring a bigger and bigger handout from its extremely generous Chairman just to stay afloat. If POD gets hit by a bus tomorrow, we're fcuked.

Face the facts. Our club is built on sand.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 3:05 pm**

Institute are entirely relying on external funding streams primarily from Stormont and the sub regional pot. so it’s a stretch to say they’ve presented a viable stadium. They’ve also said the costs of delivering the 2k capacity stadium are circa 8M in today’s money. Their land is leased at nominal rent. So factor that up to an £8k stadium and you can double the cost.

So it is viable to spend £15m on another stadium when there’s already one there with circa 7K capacity and has future potential to add a 4th stand. It would be financially bonkers to walk away and start a new project.

All the efforts should be on the academy or training camp. That’s where the infrastructure is lacking and that’s where it’s needed and is most important. You play in a stadium once a fortnight and we have enough sway with the Council to add a third stand and the changes to the surface will come not before long.

If we were gifted the Brandywell overnight it wouldn’t really change our viability as a club. We’d be liable for its maintenance and running costs but little else would change. And with a grass pitch there’s no secondary income stream.

So we must be realistic and not get drunk in the idea the the Chairman will just throw money around (15M of it) on a new stadium.

Rovers are a well run club and have shown that European money is reliable. Dundalk lifted 5M in 1 season and the owners cashed in and sold up leaving them broke. So get the structure right and there is the potential to capitalise from Europe and player sales.

Currently we do neither and so the chairman’s generous handouts continue.

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