derrycitychat.com

stevebradley wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:51 am I can't see how we'd be happy with a 5,000 capacity stadium though when everyone else in the league is going for bigger. Even Finn Harps. LOI football is clearly growing. Or when our Chairman says he wants Group Stage football, which a 5,000 cspacity ground would force us to host in Dublin.

Building a weirdly massive stand at the Showgrounds end & leaving nothung at the Brandywell Road end would be pretty daft in my view. It would conpletely close the door on completing the stadium in future with a stand at that end too, & limit capacity. It would be very bad forward-planning.

And it still doesn't address all the ither issues re car parking, non-neutral area etc. The journey I take to the Brandywell sees me pass a whole series of big 'IRA' signs on lamposts FFS. 25yrs into the Prace Process .

marcoloco wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:23 am

stevebradley wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:51 am I can't see how we'd be happy with a 5,000 capacity stadium though when everyone else in the league is going for bigger. Even Finn Harps. LOI football is clearly growing. Or when our Chairman says he wants Group Stage football, which a 5,000 cspacity ground would force us to host in Dublin.

Building a weirdly massive stand at the Showgrounds end & leaving nothung at the Brandywell Road end would be pretty daft in my view. It would conpletely close the door on completing the stadium in future with a stand at that end too, & limit capacity. It would be very bad forward-planning.

And it still doesn't address all the ither issues re car parking, non-neutral area etc. The journey I take to the Brandywell sees me pass a whole series of big 'IRA' signs on lamposts FFS. 25yrs into the Prace Process .

Over the past 20 years we've had a handful of home games where demand exceeded 5k. We've even had European games boycotted and the attendances has dropped below average. Last season was unusual and it was due to a number of factors. Post COVID bounce and Chairman investing heavily in the team. Our average attendance in previous years was around 2k, 3k when doing well.

Now we have a new wave a supporters and this is fantastic news. But realistically for most of the games 5k capacity would perfect. Full stadiums and a great atmosphere. When you consider the success of the club is 100% reliable on the chairman's investment. If he steps down we're quickly back to a being mid table team and attendances will fall.

There's no money in the league and everything hinges on the chairmen covering losses and potential european money. If we lose out on either of these our attendances will settle down again. Football is cyclical. To suddenly talk about the need for a 8k plus stadium is a getting ahead of ourselves imo. Firstly the cost would be astronomical at a time when we cant even get money to complete a single stand. Also, if we do ever see an 8 or 10 k stadium in Derry there's a serious risk it could sit more than half empty in most games. This would kill the atmosphere.

We should aim for sustainable growth and let the future take care of itself. For me that next step would be a 5k or 6k max stadium. If we could deliver that we'd be sorted for the next 25 years.

marcoloco wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:23 am

stevebradley wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:51 am I can't see how we'd be happy with a 5,000 capacity stadium though when everyone else in the league is going for bigger. Even Finn Harps. LOI football is clearly growing. Or when our Chairman says he wants Group Stage football, which a 5,000 cspacity ground would force us to host in Dublin.

Building a weirdly massive stand at the Showgrounds end & leaving nothung at the Brandywell Road end would be pretty daft in my view. It would conpletely close the door on completing the stadium in future with a stand at that end too, & limit capacity. It would be very bad forward-planning.

And it still doesn't address all the ither issues re car parking, non-neutral area etc. The journey I take to the Brandywell sees me pass a whole series of big 'IRA' signs on lamposts FFS. 25yrs into the Prace Process .

Over the past 20 years we've had a handful of home games where demand exceeded 5k. We've even had European games boycotted and the attendances has dropped below average. Last season was unusual and it was due to a number of factors. Post COVID bounce and Chairman investing heavily in the team. Our average attendance in previous years was around 2k, 3k when doing well.

Now we have a new wave a supporters and this is fantastic news. But realistically for most of the games 5k capacity would perfect. Full stadiums and a great atmosphere. When you consider the success of the club is 100% reliable on the chairman's investment. If he steps down we're quickly back to a being mid table team and attendances will fall.

There's no money in the league and everything hinges on the chairmen covering losses and potential european money. If we lose out on either of these our attendances will settle down again. Football is cyclical. To suddenly talk about the need for a 8k plus stadium is a getting ahead of ourselves imo. Firstly the cost would be astronomical at a time when we cant even get money to complete a single stand. Also, if we do ever see an 8 or 10 k stadium in Derry there's a serious risk it could sit more than half empty in most games. This would kill the atmosphere.

We should aim for sustainable growth and let the future take care of itself. For me that next step would be a 5k or 6k max stadium. If we could deliver that we'd be sorted for the next 25 years.

marcoloco wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:11 pm Regardless, the club & the City needs a stadium that equates to UEFA Category 4, it is very unlikely that this can be achieved at the Brandywell. I take your point on lets see if the demand continues for a few years yet but POD has already stated that he wants European football to be a regular occurance for Derry City & one day make the group stages. Right now making the group stages would benefit us financially but it will be a hinderance for fans who work if we have to travel to Dublin for "home" games.

Even if the demand dips a category 4 stadium in our own City is a necessity as it means not just the football club benefits but the City itself

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:50 pm
Not enough space to extend capacity into the 8k limit for a start

Greengo wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:43 pm

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:50 pm
Not enough space to extend capacity into the 8k limit for a start

Houl on...

Mark Farren Stand = 2000
Southend Park stand = 2400

If we were to extend the MF stand on either side by 1000 each that would bring our capacity up to 6400... Surely if we were to get 1000 seats behind each goal we'd manage 8K ?

But lets keep discussing the capacity and forget about the big grey fella in the room... i.e. the playing surface...

Keyser Soze wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:36 pm Does the MF stand hold 2000?

Greengo wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:43 pm

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:50 pm
Not enough space to extend capacity into the 8k limit for a start

Houl on...

Mark Farren Stand = 2000
Southend Park stand = 2400

If we were to extend the MF stand on either side by 1000 each that would bring our capacity up to 6400... Surely if we were to get 1000 seats behind each goal we'd manage 8K ?

But lets keep discussing the capacity and forget about the big grey fella in the room... i.e. the playing surface...

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:40 am

Greengo wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:43 pm

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:50 pm
Not enough space to extend capacity into the 8k limit for a start

Houl on...

Mark Farren Stand = 2000
Southend Park stand = 2400

If we were to extend the MF stand on either side by 1000 each that would bring our capacity up to 6400... Surely if we were to get 1000 seats behind each goal we'd manage 8K ?

But lets keep discussing the capacity and forget about the big grey fella in the room... i.e. the playing surface...

Mark Farren Stand, as in the actual stand has a seating capacity of less than 1000. The extension of the MF stand is rumoured to take the overall seating capacity up to about 6k; as for 1k seats behind each goal I'm not exactly sure that is as straightforward as the extension to the MF stand. The discussion on the capacity from what I thought was to do with having a stadium that would meet UEFA Category 4 in order to host European games to meet the Chairman's ambitions. As shown across Europe a category 4 stadium is not reliant on a grass pitch but it is reliant on a seating capacity of 8k or more

roger diesel wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:09 pm

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:40 am

Greengo wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:43 pm

Houl on...

Mark Farren Stand = 2000
Southend Park stand = 2400

If we were to extend the MF stand on either side by 1000 each that would bring our capacity up to 6400... Surely if we were to get 1000 seats behind each goal we'd manage 8K ?

But lets keep discussing the capacity and forget about the big grey fella in the room... i.e. the playing surface...

Mark Farren Stand, as in the actual stand has a seating capacity of less than 1000. The extension of the MF stand is rumoured to take the overall seating capacity up to about 6k; as for 1k seats behind each goal I'm not exactly sure that is as straightforward as the extension to the MF stand. The discussion on the capacity from what I thought was to do with having a stadium that would meet UEFA Category 4 in order to host European games to meet the Chairman's ambitions. As shown across Europe a category 4 stadium is not reliant on a grass pitch but it is reliant on a seating capacity of 8k or more

From the planning portal the application for the Mark Farren stated that current truncated version holds 955. On completion each side will hold an additional 718 - roughly = 2400 in total.
Southend Park holds 2464 - if you were to build a stand behind each goal you'd lose a portion of the curved sections at each end which would have their views blocked by the new stands, (say 250 each end) = 2000 in total.
It looks possible to build a stand of roughly 1000-1200 behind the City End and Showgrounds End without too much upheaval.
So that makes a best effort of 2400(MF)+2000(SP)+1200(CE)+1200(SGE) = 6800 seats.
Still well short of an 8000 minimum CAT4 requirement.

roger diesel wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:09 pm

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:40 am

Greengo wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 3:43 pm

Houl on...

Mark Farren Stand = 2000
Southend Park stand = 2400

If we were to extend the MF stand on either side by 1000 each that would bring our capacity up to 6400... Surely if we were to get 1000 seats behind each goal we'd manage 8K ?

But lets keep discussing the capacity and forget about the big grey fella in the room... i.e. the playing surface...

Mark Farren Stand, as in the actual stand has a seating capacity of less than 1000. The extension of the MF stand is rumoured to take the overall seating capacity up to about 6k; as for 1k seats behind each goal I'm not exactly sure that is as straightforward as the extension to the MF stand. The discussion on the capacity from what I thought was to do with having a stadium that would meet UEFA Category 4 in order to host European games to meet the Chairman's ambitions. As shown across Europe a category 4 stadium is not reliant on a grass pitch but it is reliant on a seating capacity of 8k or more

From the planning portal the application for the Mark Farren stated that current truncated version holds 955. On completion each side will hold an additional 718 - roughly = 2400 in total.
Southend Park holds 2464 - if you were to build a stand behind each goal you'd lose a portion of the curved sections at each end which would have their views blocked by the new stands, (say 250 each end) = 2000 in total.
It looks possible to build a stand of roughly 1000-1200 behind the City End and Showgrounds End without too much upheaval.
So that makes a best effort of 2400(MF)+2000(SP)+1200(CE)+1200(SGE) = 6800 seats.
Still well short of an 8000 minimum CAT4 requirement.

stevebradley wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:40 pm

roger diesel wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:09 pm

dcfc_jp_1989 wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:40 am

Mark Farren Stand, as in the actual stand has a seating capacity of less than 1000. The extension of the MF stand is rumoured to take the overall seating capacity up to about 6k; as for 1k seats behind each goal I'm not exactly sure that is as straightforward as the extension to the MF stand. The discussion on the capacity from what I thought was to do with having a stadium that would meet UEFA Category 4 in order to host European games to meet the Chairman's ambitions. As shown across Europe a category 4 stadium is not reliant on a grass pitch but it is reliant on a seating capacity of 8k or more

From the planning portal the application for the Mark Farren stated that current truncated version holds 955. On completion each side will hold an additional 718 - roughly = 2400 in total.
Southend Park holds 2464 - if you were to build a stand behind each goal you'd lose a portion of the curved sections at each end which would have their views blocked by the new stands, (say 250 each end) = 2000 in total.
It looks possible to build a stand of roughly 1000-1200 behind the City End and Showgrounds End without too much upheaval.
So that makes a best effort of 2400(MF)+2000(SP)+1200(CE)+1200(SGE) = 6800 seats.
Still well short of an 8000 minimum CAT4 requirement.

Good detective work RD.

You wouldn't get anywhere near 1,000 seats in at the Brandywell Road nets end though without moving the pitch a lot more towards the Showgrounds. I reckon you'd add about 400 personally as it is now, as it's really not a big piece of land. And that's assuming you could access the new stand directly from Brandywell Road btw. If you needed to access it from inside the stadium (i.e. behind it, like the Southend) then it would be even smaller again.

No matter how it was done, I can't see how you would get to 8,000 seats at the Brandywell without effectively starting all over again (e.g. moving pitch, levelling and replacong Southend Stand).

roger diesel wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:46 pm

stevebradley wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:40 pm

roger diesel wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:09 pm

From the planning portal the application for the Mark Farren stated that current truncated version holds 955. On completion each side will hold an additional 718 - roughly = 2400 in total.
Southend Park holds 2464 - if you were to build a stand behind each goal you'd lose a portion of the curved sections at each end which would have their views blocked by the new stands, (say 250 each end) = 2000 in total.
It looks possible to build a stand of roughly 1000-1200 behind the City End and Showgrounds End without too much upheaval.
So that makes a best effort of 2400(MF)+2000(SP)+1200(CE)+1200(SGE) = 6800 seats.
Still well short of an 8000 minimum CAT4 requirement.

Good detective work RD.

You wouldn't get anywhere near 1,000 seats in at the Brandywell Road nets end though without moving the pitch a lot more towards the Showgrounds. I reckon you'd add about 400 personally as it is now, as it's really not a big piece of land. And that's assuming you could access the new stand directly from Brandywell Road btw. If you needed to access it from inside the stadium (i.e. behind it, like the Southend) then it would be even smaller again.

No matter how it was done, I can't see how you would get to 8,000 seats at the Brandywell without effectively starting all over again (e.g. moving pitch, levelling and replacong Southend Stand).

I've looked at this in a bit more detail using the plans available from the planning portal - I'd upload my sketch layouts if I could but that function doesn't seem to be available any more. (Job pitch alert: I actually am an architect - if any of the board are reading this please feel free to PM me !)
There is ample space at the City End for a stand half the width of a 'completed' 2400 seat MF, if you don't include the function rooms behind the top row of seats - they make up about 1/3 of the overall front-to-back footprint. That could be accessed at ground level at the Southend side and directly off the Brandywell Road level at the MF side by entering the stand mid-way up the 'rake'. So you'd get 1200 here as a stand-alone stand. Same at the SG End, though as SB points out the vehicle access could be an issue. From looking at the sections it does appear possible to have sufficient head room for a bus / ambulance to fit under at this point if needed - the footprint seems to avoid the road but I'd need to look at it in more detail. Stitch the new stands carefully into where the 'curves' have been removed from the Southend and add some uncovered seating in the corners closest to the MF side and I don't think you'd be far off 7500... That's at first glance, there could be other ways to stretch that up to the 8k target as JP points out, with detailed design. But that would be the absolute max I could foresee .

rodgers wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:55 pm https://www.derryjournal.com/sport/foot ... ai-3993468

If you look at the document below, it indicates that any stand built would then become the property of the council and that it would be permanent. A terrace rather than seating seems to have been proposed.

Completion of the Mark Farren is now estimated at 8.5 to 9m.

http://meetings.derrycityandstrabanedis ... tadium.pdf

stevebradley wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:18 pm

rodgers wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:55 pm https://www.derryjournal.com/sport/foot ... ai-3993468

If you look at the document below, it indicates that any stand built would then become the property of the council and that it would be permanent. A terrace rather than seating seems to have been proposed.

Completion of the Mark Farren is now estimated at 8.5 to 9m.

http://meetings.derrycityandstrabanedis ... tadium.pdf

My fear on the approach of council setting up a ~"multi-disciplinary working group' to take forward the club's 3 requests re Brandywell is that each request works on a very different timescale :

1) Addition of new stand at Brandywell Road End = Ideally done asap, as the need is here now.
2) Replacement of surface = Realistically won;t happen before 2024
3) Funding for completion of Mark Farren = Probably a longer term task than the other 2.

My fear is that by all 3 requests being bundled together in this committee, the likelihood of the first happening any time soon becomes slim if not zero. - and it's the one that can and should be done the quickest.

It's further evidence of why us not owning our own ground is a bollox and not in our own interests. Everything takes a lifetime to happen when the council is your landlord.