Brandywell Stadium Development

[marcoloco]

Regardless, the club & the City needs a stadium that equates to UEFA Category 4, it is very unlikely that this can be achieved at the Brandywell. I take your point on lets see if the demand continues for a few years yet but POD has already stated that he wants European football to be a regular occurance for Derry City & one day make the group stages. Right now making the group stages would benefit us financially but it will be a hinderance for fans who work if we have to travel to Dublin for "home" games.

Even if the demand dips a category 4 stadium in our own City is a necessity as it means not just the football club benefits but the City itself
[/quote]

"the club & the City needs a stadium that equates to UEFA Category 4, it is very unlikely that this can be achieved at the Brandywell".

Why's that?

[stevebradley]

Celtic Park is not compatible for "soccer" in its current build and would need a lot of work.

Remember when soccer matches were played in Croke Park? Huge distances between the nets and the stands behind the net and quite a distance along the sides of the pitch due to the bigger pitch dimensions.

It would kill the atmosphere and would just look disjointed. We always seem to be putting square pegs into round wholes when it comes to a stadium. Football stadiums should be quite simple - 4 stands on each side of the pitch that are within 10 yards of the pitch. Do that, and you create a brilliant atmosphere and it looks great on TV.

Celtic Park began life as a 'soccer' pitch though Kev, so its dimensions are actually quite tight for GAA. I think it's the narrowest pitch in Ulster GAA, and one of the narrowest in the country ? The County Board have raised its tight dimensions as one of the reasons why they want to develop Owenbeg as the main county ground. So it wouldn't be anything as bad as Croke Park if converted back to a football stadium.

[stevebradley]

I personally don't get all this re-location talk. We have spent years pleading to get the Brandywell upgraded, we've finally got the farren stand and with a bit of luck will have further development.

This was all layed out in the article I posted up earlier.

Once the Mark Farren si completed we'll have a capacity of 5,500. That will be smaller than where pretty much every other decent-sized club in the LOI is going with their capacity (Finn Harps would have a bigger stadium than us sure). So we'll be getting left behind. And the current growth on demand for Derry gaes feels more rooted in the community than previous bursts of support were. Irish football is also going through a growth phase, so it's not just us that are getting bigger crowds. Pretty much everyone is.

As for further development at Brandywell - the problem is what and how, given the limitations on the ground created by the dog track ?

Another question is if we were to want to move to Celtic Park etc, who do we expect will pay for that? We've seen how difficult it is to get a new stand financed.

Sure who pays for pretty much everything at the club ? Who's providing the budget for us to afford the team we have ? Who's paying for the Academy to be set up ? Who's prepared to put some money towards changing the pitch ? Important to note that POD has stated that he wants Derry to get to the Group stages of European competition. That would mean we'd have to play games in Dublin, as even with the Mark Farren Stand finished the Brandywell will not meet the requirements.

[stevebradley]

The big issue for me is that Derry City has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to look anywhere other than the Brandywell for our future. It's very short-sighted to be so closed-minded about the issue IMO.

^^^ THIS


It begs the question WHY ?

Why? ££££

POD has bankrolled the Club since he took over. It operates at a loss or has done most seasons. You can't just turn your back on a public owned facility where you pay a low rental. To build the type of stadium we need, land included, you're talking £5 to 10m.

It would relalistically cost more than that to be honest. But there are solutions which wouldn't require us to buy land. Creating a mixed-use, multi-purpose civic stadium at Templemore for example, with the current Sports Complex elements built inside and next to the stadium, would be a sensible use of money and space IMO. The Council is already on the hook to spend tens of millions there as it is, and is struggling - so it would have money available and presumably be glad to have someone else coming on board to help share the cost. Plus all the new housing in that area will require developer contributions towards community facilities etc, which could be at least partially be amalgamated at the new civic stadium. And if the existing Brandywell Stadium was no longer needed for sport, that part of the Showgrounds site could be sold and/or redeveloped - generating revenues which could help fund the civic stadium. A lot of the money would be there through various routes if the club was prepared to think beyond the Brandywell.

[marcoloco]

I understand your logic and much of that I agree with and some of it I don't. However, you continue to rely heavily on the Council. You're saying to your landlord - this house that i'm renting is grand, for now, but i wont always want to live here. How about building me a bigger house in a different part of town then i'll be happy there and will continue paying you rent... but not a great rent, you know, because were long time, long term tenants.

The type of project you're talking about would really only be delivered by a private developer with a sharp focus on profit. There's no way that Council are going to get themselves involved in mix-use community projects that run into tens of millions of pounds. There's no track record of delivering such projects locally and there's no experience within the Council.

It would be different story if DCFC owned Templemore and said we're going to do a mixed use housing, retail, stadium project. And by the end it will all stack up. Then yes, I could see that as a more likely scenario. But that's not the case.

Shamrock Rovers have just built a 2500 stand behind the goals. Add that stand to the Brandywell and youre up to 8k fans and still have potential to fill in the corners.

[stevebradley]

I understand your logic and much of that I agree with and some of it I don't. However, you continue to rely heavily on the Council. You're saying to your landlord - this house that i'm renting is grand, for now, but i wont always want to live here. How about building me a bigger house in a different part of town then i'll be happy there and will continue paying you rent... but not a great rent, you know, because were long time, long term tenants.

OK - I'll say what we're all thinking. Our Chairman is worth billions, is an extremely generous man, spends a fortune on the club as it is, is no doubt interested in its long-term financial security/sustainability, and on his own legacy of involvement wiht the club. You can join the dots from there

The type of project you're talking about would really only be delivered by a private developer with a sharp focus on profit. There's no way that Council are going to get themselves involved in mix-use community projects that run into tens of millions of pounds. There's no track record of delivering such projects locally and there's no experience within the Council.

The project I'm talking about at Templemore absolutely does not need to be delivered by a private developer. It's essentially just doing what South Dublin Council have done at Tallaght.

It would be different story if DCFC owned Templemore and said we're going to do a mixed use housing, retail, stadium project. And by the end it will all stack up. Then yes, I could see that as a more likely scenario. But that's not the case.

Whether or not DCFC own Templemore is irrelevant to this scheme. I've outlined a varety of sources where the funds needed for a new mixed-use, multi-purpose civic stadium and sports campus at Templemore would come from :

1) Council (who have to spend tens of millions there anyway).
2) Stormont
3) Derry City FC (via its Chairman)
4) Planning conditions/tithes placed on the developers of the new hosuing in that area to find community facilties at the stadium.
5) Receipt from the sale/development of the Brandywell.

Shamrock Rovers have just built a 2500 stand behind the goals. Add that stand to the Brandywell and youre up to 8k fans and still have potential to fill in the corners.

Shamrock Rovers have just built nothing though - their council has, funding it 100%. The model I've outlined above involves our council only having to contribute PART of the funding for a new stadium. Which would be part of a facility they have to build at some point in the near future anyway (a new Templemore Sports Complex), and which like South Dublin Co Co and Tallaght - they could then use for various wider events for our city and region. How can you celebrate a council's involvement at Tallaght Stadium, but essentially say its not feasible for somewhere like Templemore? Secondly - once the Mark Farren Stand is finished, there is literally nowhere at the Brandywell where you could add an additional stand that would get anywhere close to a capacity of 2,500 seats. That's like replicating the entire Southend Stand behind just one goal. You'd be lucky to get a quarter of that new capacity behind the Brandywell Road nets, and the dog track and access road is a stumbling block at the Showground End. And thanks to the curved-nature of the Southend Stand on one side and floodlights on the other, the Brandywell has no corners to fill in

How are we going to get an 8,000 capacity at Brandywell ? Which is what we will need to host the Chairman's stated ambition for group-stage European football

[Keyser Soze]

I have heard the argument about Rovers doing this and doing that at Tallaght.

Do people forget that it's the council that own Tallaght too? I'm not sure but I think all these ground improvements, which are benefiting Rovers, are costing them nothing.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[marcoloco]

I have heard the argument about Rovers doing this and doing that at Tallaght.

Do people forget that it's the council that own Tallaght too? I'm not sure but I think all these ground improvements, which are benefiting Rovers, are costing them nothing.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's correct. Rovers, like us, are tenants. Though Rovers benefit from being in Dublin so more money, bigger population, different jurisdiction with less interference by political parties etc etc

The reference to Rovers is only with respect to what is being built there at present. A new 2500 stand paid for by the Council.

[marcoloco]

Steve, I accept we can't build a similar 2.5k stand at the showgrounds end because of the dog track. But if the track was relocated to Templemore you could. Yes, we'd lose a small element of the Southend stand as part of the development but it would be minimal.

But rather than explore relocating the dog track you propose building an entire new stadium with the recent money ploughed into Brandywell simply written off?

It just doesn't make any sense for me. You agree it would take more than 10m and yet we are sat with a half-baked MF stand which just tells you how quickly things happen. We're not Dublin. We can't just look at that local authority and say we'll do the same. Things happen at a snails pace in the north and any reliance on council or regional funding just piles on more uncertainty and delay. If Derry says we need £15m for a new stadium project when we have one already there would be riots.

Public services are on their knees, there's no money for anything. The political situation is a shambles. Decades pass by and nothing happens or changes. Based on that alone i'd opt for the project that has the highest chance of delivery.

[PauliAlonso]

Steve, I accept we can't build a similar 2.5k stand at the showgrounds end because of the dog track. But if the track was relocated to Templemore you could. Yes, we'd lose a small element of the Southend stand as part of the development but it would be minimal.

But rather than explore relocating the dog track you propose building an entire new stadium with the recent money ploughed into Brandywell simply written off?

I think people underestimate the influence of the doggymen in all this. Many of the delays during the last redevelopment were brought about by the doggymen, needing reassurances (and understandably so) about how they would be accommodated during the transition and in the future. It's not enough to just say "put the dog track somewhere else and build a stand behind the goal". Plus, even if we did successfully get the dog track moved somewhere else, what do we do next about a stand behind the other goal? Get the Brandywell Road closed off and build out onto it? Then the other end of the New Stand also needs cut off. Doable, technically, but in the end you're still left with a piecemeal, thrown-together stadium. And at some point in the future, the New Stand will become a problem and will also need redeveloped or done up. If we have someone now who's willing to foot the bill (and we don't know that he is, but let's assume), then why not go and build something brand new and fit for purpose?

[marcoloco]

Steve, I accept we can't build a similar 2.5k stand at the showgrounds end because of the dog track. But if the track was relocated to Templemore you could. Yes, we'd lose a small element of the Southend stand as part of the development but it would be minimal.

But rather than explore relocating the dog track you propose building an entire new stadium with the recent money ploughed into Brandywell simply written off?

I think people underestimate the influence of the doggymen in all this. Many of the delays during the last redevelopment were brought about by the doggymen, needing reassurances (and understandably so) about how they would be accommodated during the transition and in the future. It's not enough to just say "put the dog track somewhere else and build a stand behind the goal". Plus, even if we did successfully get the dog track moved somewhere else, what do we do next about a stand behind the other goal? Get the Brandywell Road closed off and build out onto it? Then the other end of the New Stand also needs cut off. Doable, technically, but in the end you're still left with a piecemeal, thrown-together stadium. And at some point in the future, the New Stand will become a problem and will also need redeveloped or done up. If we have someone now who's willing to foot the bill (and we don't know that he is, but let's assume), then why not go and build something brand new and fit for purpose?

100% agree about the need to look after the doggymen. Not for a second am I suggesting they get thrown to the dogs...

As for the Brandywell Road end... if the doggymen are relocated you move the pitch down towards the showgrounds end to future proof it for future developoment at that end in another 20 years. Its straightforward but only if you have that extra land at the showgrounds. Without that land were limited to tinkering around the edges of what we currently have.

[PauliAlonso]

I think people underestimate the influence of the doggymen in all this. Many of the delays during the last redevelopment were brought about by the doggymen, needing reassurances (and understandably so) about how they would be accommodated during the transition and in the future. It's not enough to just say "put the dog track somewhere else and build a stand behind the goal". Plus, even if we did successfully get the dog track moved somewhere else, what do we do next about a stand behind the other goal? Get the Brandywell Road closed off and build out onto it? Then the other end of the New Stand also needs cut off. Doable, technically, but in the end you're still left with a piecemeal, thrown-together stadium. And at some point in the future, the New Stand will become a problem and will also need redeveloped or done up. If we have someone now who's willing to foot the bill (and we don't know that he is, but let's assume), then why not go and build something brand new and fit for purpose?

100% agree about the need to look after the doggymen. Not for a second am I suggesting they get thrown to the dogs...

As for the Brandywell Road end... if the doggymen are relocated you move the pitch down towards the showgrounds end to future proof it for future developoment at that end in another 20 years. Its straightforward but only if you have that extra land at the showgrounds. Without that land were limited to tinkering around the edges of what we currently have.

But if you move the pitch, you've to move the stands as well. Proves the point - if we want a decent stadium for the club, it has to be somewhere else. To get the Brandywell to the level we want it, would involve bulldozing everything and starting again, which I can't see the Council going for.

[marcoloco]

I think people underestimate the influence of the doggymen in all this. Many of the delays during the last redevelopment were brought about by the doggymen, needing reassurances (and understandably so) about how they would be accommodated during the transition and in the future. It's not enough to just say "put the dog track somewhere else and build a stand behind the goal". Plus, even if we did successfully get the dog track moved somewhere else, what do we do next about a stand behind the other goal? Get the Brandywell Road closed off and build out onto it? Then the other end of the New Stand also needs cut off. Doable, technically, but in the end you're still left with a piecemeal, thrown-together stadium. And at some point in the future, the New Stand will become a problem and will also need redeveloped or done up. If we have someone now who's willing to foot the bill (and we don't know that he is, but let's assume), then why not go and build something brand new and fit for purpose?

100% agree about the need to look after the doggymen. Not for a second am I suggesting they get thrown to the dogs...

As for the Brandywell Road end... if the doggymen are relocated you move the pitch down towards the showgrounds end to future proof it for future developoment at that end in another 20 years. Its straightforward but only if you have that extra land at the showgrounds. Without that land were limited to tinkering around the edges of what we currently have.

But if you move the pitch, you've to move the stands as well. Proves the point - if we want a decent stadium for the club, it has to be somewhere else. To get the Brandywell to the level we want it, would involve bulldozing everything and starting again, which I can't see the Council going for.

Why? You're not moving any stands. There's simply no need to go knocking anything down. Pulling the pitch forward to create extra space behind the goals doesn't change anything. Even if the MF stand been completed it wouldn't change anything. No need to make more work (and cost) than what is necessary. Anyway, it's a mute point. We'll be very lucky to get the MF stand finished this decade and a few temporary structures dotted around the place.

[PauliAlonso]

But if you move the pitch, you've to move the stands as well. Proves the point - if we want a decent stadium for the club, it has to be somewhere else. To get the Brandywell to the level we want it, would involve bulldozing everything and starting again, which I can't see the Council going for.

Why? You're not moving any stands. There's simply no need to go knocking anything down. Pulling the pitch forward to create extra space behind the goals doesn't change anything. Even if the MF stand been completed it wouldn't change anything. No need to make more work (and cost) than what is necessary. Anyway, it's a mute point. We'll be very lucky to get the MF stand finished this decade and a few temporary structures dotted around the place.

The stands are aligned with the position of the pitch. If you move the pitch and leave the stands where they are, it will just look stupid; everything will be off-centre. And sure, that's just an optical issue, but why should we continually accept half-arsed improvements?

[marcoloco]

But if you move the pitch, you've to move the stands as well. Proves the point - if we want a decent stadium for the club, it has to be somewhere else. To get the Brandywell to the level we want it, would involve bulldozing everything and starting again, which I can't see the Council going for.

Why? You're not moving any stands. There's simply no need to go knocking anything down. Pulling the pitch forward to create extra space behind the goals doesn't change anything. Even if the MF stand been completed it wouldn't change anything. No need to make more work (and cost) than what is necessary. Anyway, it's a mute point. We'll be very lucky to get the MF stand finished this decade and a few temporary structures dotted around the place.

The stands are aligned with the position of the pitch. If you move the pitch and leave the stands where they are, it will just look stupid; everything will be off-centre. And sure, that's just an optical issue, but why should we continually accept half-arsed improvements?

Because we are a team that operates on a deficit and play in a league with no tv deal and a 100k prize for the winners. I think we need to be realistic. Any ideas of a state of the art, fully enclosed stadium should be set aside. But a fit for purpose and 100% completed stadium should not be beyond us.

[City4ever]

We will all be having these same conversations about these same issues in 10/15 years time

[TenaciousDee]

We will all be having these same conversations about these same issues in 10/15 years time

Conversation got old 20 years ago. Can't believe we are still having it.

[stevebradley]

100% agree about the need to look after the doggymen. Not for a second am I suggesting they get thrown to the dogs...

As for the Brandywell Road end... if the doggymen are relocated you move the pitch down towards the showgrounds end to future proof it for future developoment at that end in another 20 years. Its straightforward but only if you have that extra land at the showgrounds. Without that land were limited to tinkering around the edges of what we currently have.

But if you move the pitch, you've to move the stands as well. Proves the point - if we want a decent stadium for the club, it has to be somewhere else. To get the Brandywell to the level we want it, would involve bulldozing everything and starting again, which I can't see the Council going for.

Why? You're not moving any stands. There's simply no need to go knocking anything down. Pulling the pitch forward to create extra space behind the goals doesn't change anything. Even if the MF stand been completed it wouldn't change anything. No need to make more work (and cost) than what is necessary. Anyway, it's a mute point. We'll be very lucky to get the MF stand finished this decade and a few temporary structures dotted around the place.

Next time you're up at the Brandywell Marco, stand in-line with the nets at the Showgrounds end. You'll see that the Southend Stand literally curves towards the pitch at both of its ends. So if you move the pitch substantially you also have to knock down either end of the Southend, as it just wouldn't work any more. Plus it curves into where you would want to put a stand behind the nets. It really isn't just a case of buikding a new stand.

And even if you move the dog track, to get a 2,500 seater stand into the space behind the Showgrounds nets would be like building the Tower of Babel. The MF Stand has a great gradient IMO, is probably on a bigger footprint than the area behind the nets is, and yet only holds 900 people. So how are you going to get 2,500 people behind either net at the Brandywell ?!

I agree aboiut the dog track being moved as a solution btw. The problem isn Derry is that our counciklkors don't run anything, so they never have to make any decisions (and particularly not brave/difficult ones). They're therefore fairly easy to put pressure on - because if you have no power you have no record/promise of delivery to ask people to re-elect you on, so you're then limited just to how many people know your name and being nice to everyone. The original plan for the Brandywell removed the dofg track without relocating it (a mistake in my view, as the sport should be catered for somewhere). Then once the doggymen got organised and applied a bit of pressure the councillors folded and got that plan changed.

Realistically how many people are involved in the dog racing fraternity in the city ? And yet their needs was the proverbial tail that wagged the dog of the future development of a stadium that's supposed to hold 5,500 people eventually. Madness when you think about it.

[marcoloco]

But if you move the pitch, you've to move the stands as well. Proves the point - if we want a decent stadium for the club, it has to be somewhere else. To get the Brandywell to the level we want it, would involve bulldozing everything and starting again, which I can't see the Council going for.

Why? You're not moving any stands. There's simply no need to go knocking anything down. Pulling the pitch forward to create extra space behind the goals doesn't change anything. Even if the MF stand been completed it wouldn't change anything. No need to make more work (and cost) than what is necessary. Anyway, it's a mute point. We'll be very lucky to get the MF stand finished this decade and a few temporary structures dotted around the place.

Next time you're up at the Brandywell Marco, stand in-line with the nets at the Showgrounds end. You'll see that the Southend Stand literally curves towards the pitch at both of its ends. So if you move the pitch substantially you also have to knock down either end of the Southend, as it just wouldn't work any more. Plus it curves into where you would want to put a stand behind the nets. It really isn't just a case of buikding a new stand.

And even if you move the dog track, to get a 2,500 seater stand into the space behind the Showgrounds nets would be like building the Tower of Babel. The MF Stand has a great gradient IMO, is probably on a bigger footprint than the area behind the nets is, and yet only holds 900 people. So how are you going to get 2,500 people behind either net at the Brandywell ?!

I agree aboiut the dog track being moved as a solution btw. The problem isn Derry is that our counciklkors don't run anything, so they never have to make any decisions (and particularly not brave/difficult ones). They're therefore fairly easy to put pressure on - because if you have no power you have no record/promise of delivery to ask people to re-elect you on, so you're then limited just to how many people know your name and being nice to everyone. The original plan for the Brandywell removed the dofg track without relocating it (a mistake in my view, as the sport should be catered for somewhere). Then once the doggymen got organised and applied a bit of pressure the councillors folded and got that plan changed.

Realistically how many people are involved in the dog racing fraternity in the city ? And yet their needs was the proverbial tail that wagged the dog of the future development of a stadium that's supposed to hold 5,500 people eventually. Madness when you think about it.

Hi Steve,

A good exercise is to look at the site using an OS map. You can do this online for free.

A small corner section of the Southend stand would need to be removed. This is the area to the rear of No.s 32,33 and 34 Southend Park. Thats the width of 3 small terraced properties. Probably a single block of seats. You lose a full block of seats. But in return you open up the entire area behind the goal for development. All assuming the dog track was relocated.

I accept the level difference would be extreme in comparison to the Southend stand but there's no housing that would be affected. Plus if you compare it to the height of the MF stand then the difference is significantly less.

Regarding the capacity the new stand behind the nets at Tallaght will be 2.5k. Having looked at this design they have similar land holding to play with as the Brandywell plus showgrounds when combined.

[stevebradley]

Why? You're not moving any stands. There's simply no need to go knocking anything down. Pulling the pitch forward to create extra space behind the goals doesn't change anything. Even if the MF stand been completed it wouldn't change anything. No need to make more work (and cost) than what is necessary. Anyway, it's a mute point. We'll be very lucky to get the MF stand finished this decade and a few temporary structures dotted around the place.

Next time you're up at the Brandywell Marco, stand in-line with the nets at the Showgrounds end. You'll see that the Southend Stand literally curves towards the pitch at both of its ends. So if you move the pitch substantially you also have to knock down either end of the Southend, as it just wouldn't work any more. Plus it curves into where you would want to put a stand behind the nets. It really isn't just a case of buikding a new stand.

And even if you move the dog track, to get a 2,500 seater stand into the space behind the Showgrounds nets would be like building the Tower of Babel. The MF Stand has a great gradient IMO, is probably on a bigger footprint than the area behind the nets is, and yet only holds 900 people. So how are you going to get 2,500 people behind either net at the Brandywell ?!

I agree aboiut the dog track being moved as a solution btw. The problem isn Derry is that our counciklkors don't run anything, so they never have to make any decisions (and particularly not brave/difficult ones). They're therefore fairly easy to put pressure on - because if you have no power you have no record/promise of delivery to ask people to re-elect you on, so you're then limited just to how many people know your name and being nice to everyone. The original plan for the Brandywell removed the dofg track without relocating it (a mistake in my view, as the sport should be catered for somewhere). Then once the doggymen got organised and applied a bit of pressure the councillors folded and got that plan changed.

Realistically how many people are involved in the dog racing fraternity in the city ? And yet their needs was the proverbial tail that wagged the dog of the future development of a stadium that's supposed to hold 5,500 people eventually. Madness when you think about it.

Hi Steve,

A good exercise is to look at the site using an OS map. You can do this online for free.

A small corner section of the Southend stand would need to be removed. This is the area to the rear of No.s 32,33 and 34 Southend Park. Thats the width of 3 small terraced properties. Probably a single block of seats. You lose a full block of seats. But in return you open up the entire area behind the goal for development. All assuming the dog track was relocated.

I accept the level difference would be extreme in comparison to the Southend stand but there's no housing that would be affected. Plus if you compare it to the height of the MF stand then the difference is significantly less.

Regarding the capacity the new stand behind the nets at Tallaght will be 2.5k. Having looked at this design they have similar land holding to play with as the Brandywell plus showgrounds when combined.

If you're moving the pitch to be able to put a stand behind each net, then you'd have to knock down any part of the Southend Stand whch isn't currently in a straight line. Looking at OS, the curved sections at either end of the stand amount to about a third of the entire structure (?) - so about 900 seats impacted. Of those you'd be able to put some back in by extending the existing Southend Stand at the end where the pitch has been moved down towards - but you won't get all 900 of those back. So realistically you'd be cutting aboiut 500 off fthe capacity of the Southend in the whole process.

And that's the problem. You're into the realms of doing major surgery on the existing stadium and pitch to get anything significant added behind the nets. And if I;m honest I still can't see how you'd get essemtially another version of the current Southend Stand behind the Showgrounds net without it having the gradient of a ski slope and/or being weirdly massive versus the rest of the place ?

Then there's all the other situff you need to be a category 4 UEFA Stadium to host group stage football, as POD has said he's aiming for. That includes stuff like 150 parking spaces just for VIPs - which is probably close to the total number of spaces on the site currently. Extra media space, 10 commentary positions, proper segregation etc etc.

Finally - None of the building work re the stadium would address the inherent issues with the Brandywell that impact its long-term suitability as a European stadium - in terms of a hemmed-in site, limited parking, not a neutral area etc. The Brandywell was refurbished 4yrs ago and now we're already talking about the need for further additional major changes there. I don't think comparisons with Tallaght Stadium work, as they had a greenfield site that is completely free-standing and has nothing around it. It was therefore designed form the very start to be built in phases, with the plans for big stands behind each net factored in. Hence they have the space and design to accommodate 2,500 behind one of their nets. The Brandywell is a very different animal. We're not a blank slate, so have to work with the reality there as it is (unless we want to spend a fortune making it a blank slate again - which moving the dog track and the pitch, demolishing bits of the Southend Stand etc is heading down the road of doing).