Brandywell Stadium Development

[brandyball]

This topic has produced many many words I am lost at the thinking but always Martin Luther King’s words knaw at me “I have a dream” that for me is that in the city we ALL.{ Derry or Londonderry } love we become all one in this . The City of CULTURE year showed the world what we could do except now to pull together within our small community over sport seems beyond us . Why oh why can’t we say “Look at us “ we love Derry and won’t divide ourselves “ We could have a beautiful stadium for ALL GAA Derry I city. nstitute. Rugby. the pride of Ireland with US ALL supporting each other A stadium where other great events could also be held and we can say “this I our Place. A place for Derry
But Martin Luther never saw his dream truly fulfilled Why we fight over a stadium, who can actually visit it , or play on it determined by anything but the love of our City and those who live there.
A pity a pity We could have set the example to the whole country
I have a dream. But just now I’m in the nightmare phase

I think Casement has that Market covered.

[eugenio]

This topic has produced many many words I am lost at the thinking but always Martin Luther King’s words knaw at me “I have a dream” that for me is that in the city we ALL.{ Derry or Londonderry } love we become all one in this . The City of CULTURE year showed the world what we could do except now to pull together within our small community over sport seems beyond us . Why oh why can’t we say “Look at us “ we love Derry and won’t divide ourselves “ We could have a beautiful stadium for ALL GAA Derry I city. nstitute. Rugby. the pride of Ireland with US ALL supporting each other A stadium where other great events could also be held and we can say “this I our Place. A place for Derry
But Martin Luther never saw his dream truly fulfilled Why we fight over a stadium, who can actually visit it , or play on it determined by anything but the love of our City and those who live there.
A pity a pity We could have set the example to the whole country
I have a dream. But just now I’m in the nightmare phase

I think Casement has that Market covered.
I see nothing at all to suggest Casement will have regular Soccer played there . I still dreamt we might be first anyhow

[brandyball]

This topic has produced many many words I am lost at the thinking but always Martin Luther King’s words knaw at me “I have a dream” that for me is that in the city we ALL.{ Derry or Londonderry } love we become all one in this . The City of CULTURE year showed the world what we could do except now to pull together within our small community over sport seems beyond us . Why oh why can’t we say “Look at us “ we love Derry and won’t divide ourselves “ We could have a beautiful stadium for ALL GAA Derry I city. nstitute. Rugby. the pride of Ireland with US ALL supporting each other A stadium where other great events could also be held and we can say “this I our Place. A place for Derry
But Martin Luther never saw his dream truly fulfilled Why we fight over a stadium, who can actually visit it , or play on it determined by anything but the love of our City and those who live there.
A pity a pity We could have set the example to the whole country
I have a dream. But just now I’m in the nightmare phase

I think Casement has that Market covered.
I see nothing at all to suggest Casement will have regular Soccer played there . I still dreamt we might be first anyhow

Is IFA not chpping in £5 mil?

[stevebradley]

I think Casement has that Market covered.
I see nothing at all to suggest Casement will have regular Soccer played there . I still dreamt we might be first anyhow

Is IFA not chpping in £5 mil?

To Casement ? God no. Why would they ?

Sure the GAA are only putting in £15m, and they own the bloody place

[stevebradley]

This topic has produced many many words I am lost at the thinking but always Martin Luther King’s words knaw at me “I have a dream” that for me is that in the city we ALL.{ Derry or Londonderry } love we become all one in this . The City of CULTURE year showed the world what we could do except now to pull together within our small community over sport seems beyond us . Why oh why can’t we say “Look at us “ we love Derry and won’t divide ourselves “ We could have a beautiful stadium for ALL GAA Derry I city. nstitute. Rugby. the pride of Ireland with US ALL supporting each other A stadium where other great events could also be held and we can say “this I our Place. A place for Derry
But Martin Luther never saw his dream truly fulfilled Why we fight over a stadium, who can actually visit it , or play on it determined by anything but the love of our City and those who live there.
A pity a pity We could have set the example to the whole country
I have a dream. But just now I’m in the nightmare phase

I had a similar dream re a mixed-use regional civic stadium being created at Templemore Complex Eugenio. A facility that could host Derry City as anchor tenants, & possibly also Stute ; attract some U21 Football internationals & the occasional Ulster Rugby friendly ; plus the odd concert etc etc. A facility for the whole region, attached to a revamped high quality leisure centre.

Unfortunately the council and the club combined in a competition to see who could most lack vision with their whole 'Brandywell is the only show in town chat. Then you see the ambition that towns a fraction of our size - like Ballymena and Coleraine - have for their facilities.

It's genuinely depressing sometimes how much we gladly clip our own wings as a city, least we ever dare fly a bit too high

[eugenio]

This topic has produced many many words I am lost at the thinking but always Martin Luther King’s words knaw at me “I have a dream” that for me is that in the city we ALL.{ Derry or Londonderry } love we become all one in this . The City of CULTURE year showed the world what we could do except now to pull together within our small community over sport seems beyond us . Why oh why can’t we say “Look at us “ we love Derry and won’t divide ourselves “ We could have a beautiful stadium for ALL GAA Derry I city. nstitute. Rugby. the pride of Ireland with US ALL supporting each other A stadium where other great events could also be held and we can say “this I our Place. A place for Derry
But Martin Luther never saw his dream truly fulfilled Why we fight over a stadium, who can actually visit it , or play on it determined by anything but the love of our City and those who live there.
A pity a pity We could have set the example to the whole country
I have a dream. But just now I’m in the nightmare phase

I had a similar dream re a mixed-use regional civic stadium being created at Templemore Complex Eugenio. A facility that could host Derry City as anchor tenants, & possibly also Stute ; attract some U21 Football internationals & the occasional Ulster Rugby friendly ; plus the odd concert etc etc. A facility for the whole region, attached to a revamped high quality leisure centre.

Unfortunately the council and the club combined in a competition to see who could most lack vision with their whole 'Brandywell is the only show in town chat. Then you see the ambition that towns a fraction of our size - like Ballymena and Coleraine - have for their facilities.

It's genuinely depressing sometimes how much we gladly clip our own wings as a city, least we ever dare fly a bit too high

Steve on the money here Why can’t we get on with our own the mystery of our City great as it is

[rodgers]

Who would even own the ground under this idea? I'm not sure it would be the best idea in the world putting it into the ownership of the club.

I normally try not to dismiss ideas out of hand but I just don't see this one happening along those lines.

Simple solution - the ground would be bought by a Trust, separate from the club. That way it would be protected if the club got into financial trouble again. It's a model that some clubs use in England (especially fan-run ones who had issues with their ground previously).

If he is willing to also set up and organise the running of a trust, fair play to him.

[marcoloco]

This topic has produced many many words I am lost at the thinking but always Martin Luther King’s words knaw at me “I have a dream” that for me is that in the city we ALL.{ Derry or Londonderry } love we become all one in this . The City of CULTURE year showed the world what we could do except now to pull together within our small community over sport seems beyond us . Why oh why can’t we say “Look at us “ we love Derry and won’t divide ourselves “ We could have a beautiful stadium for ALL GAA Derry I city. nstitute. Rugby. the pride of Ireland with US ALL supporting each other A stadium where other great events could also be held and we can say “this I our Place. A place for Derry
But Martin Luther never saw his dream truly fulfilled Why we fight over a stadium, who can actually visit it , or play on it determined by anything but the love of our City and those who live there.
A pity a pity We could have set the example to the whole country
I have a dream. But just now I’m in the nightmare phase

I had a similar dream re a mixed-use regional civic stadium being created at Templemore Complex Eugenio. A facility that could host Derry City as anchor tenants, & possibly also Stute ; attract some U21 Football internationals & the occasional Ulster Rugby friendly ; plus the odd concert etc etc. A facility for the whole region, attached to a revamped high quality leisure centre.

Unfortunately the council and the club combined in a competition to see who could most lack vision with their whole 'Brandywell is the only show in town chat. Then you see the ambition that towns a fraction of our size - like Ballymena and Coleraine - have for their facilities.

It's genuinely depressing sometimes how much we gladly clip our own wings as a city, least we ever dare fly a bit too high

Sadly religion, politics, self interest, greed, lack of vision and geography are all working against that idea. I think Stute need something in the Waterside. Their Board will tell you the same. Maybe a 2 stadium solution would work... but for now its looking increasing likely that Stute will get the lands at Cloney Park West to build their new home. The Brandywell will be enhanced eventually. Maybe a solution would be DCFC completing the refurb works, taking them further than what is currently planned (including relaying a grass surface when the current one is past its sell by date) in return for a portion of ownership and control in the stadium? Again, the Council would need to be open to facilitating that idea. Then you can have a 2 stadium solution with a potential 7k stadium and a 3k stadium that would more than meet the needs of both clubs and facilitate other sports and events.

[bilco]

I maybe incorrect but , I believe, Council do not own the Brandywell, they are the guardians of it on behalf of all the people of Derry. The owners are the Honourable the Irish Society, whose lease to the council states, it must be available for all sections/sports of the local community. Any potential grants available from EU , IFA, FAI etc could not be accessed previously and probably into the future,due the Lease issue. We just, reluctantly, have to leave our home to progress, as have many other Football teams.
I would think the board are well aware of all the potential scenarios and probably are working behind the scenes as we speak with a long term plan. We will all just have to wait and see. Sorry thing was we had the foresight in the late 80s to buy our potential new home and it was taken from us due to financial issues, we have went from pillar to post ever since.

[stevebradley]

Who would even own the ground under this idea? I'm not sure it would be the best idea in the world putting it into the ownership of the club.

I normally try not to dismiss ideas out of hand but I just don't see this one happening along those lines.

Simple solution - the ground would be bought by a Trust, separate from the club. That way it would be protected if the club got into financial trouble again. It's a model that some clubs use in England (especially fan-run ones who had issues with their ground previously).

If he is willing to also set up and organise the running of a trust, fair play to him.

The additional work involved in setting up and then running a Trust is relatively small. Supporters Trusts have no problem managing it. It's just an ownership/governance structure.

[stevebradley]

I maybe incorrect but , I believe, Council do not own the Brandywell, they are the guardians of it on behalf of all the people of Derry. The owners are the Honourable the Irish Society, whose lease to the council states, it must be available for all sections/sports of the local community. Any potential grants available from EU , IFA, FAI etc could not be accessed previously and probably into the future,due the Lease issue. We just, reluctantly, have to leave our home to progress, as have many other Football teams.
I would think the board are well aware of all the potential scenarios and probably are working behind the scenes as we speak with a long term plan. We will all just have to wait and see. Sorry thing was we had the foresight in the late 80s to buy our potential new home and it was taken from us due to financial issues, we have went from pillar to post ever since.

HIS transferred ownership of the Brandywell to the council decades ago. There is a covenant on the ground about sporting use, but HIS would be open to approaches about that (as a former Deputy Governor told me himself about a decade ago).

So this isn't an issue in all honesty, and wasn't the reason why the club and council refused to consider anywhere else than Brandywell.

[rodgers]

The Council is the owner of the Brandywell stadium (“Brandywell”) and associated lands in Derry City. These lands were conveyed to the Londonderry Corporation by a fee farm grant from the Honourable Irish Society in 1933 and are now largely free from any encumbrance.

The Council operates under the constraints of the Irish Society charter limitation, which declare that the Brandywell must be available for the recreation of the community.

That's from a legal opinion the Council got from a QC prior to redevelopment.

[stevebradley]

The Council is the owner of the Brandywell stadium (“Brandywell”) and associated lands in Derry City. These lands were conveyed to the Londonderry Corporation by a fee farm grant from the Honourable Irish Society in 1933 and are now largely free from any encumbrance.

The Council operates under the constraints of the Irish Society charter limitation, which declare that the Brandywell must be available for the recreation of the community.

That's from a legal opinion the Council got from a QC prior to redevelopment.

Did they speak to HIS about it all ? It's their covenant, so that's all that matters.

If the covenant was effectively 'transferred' to another site where a new stadium would be, I doubt they would have an issue. There's a discussion to be had and a case to be made here. As mentioned, I asked the question a few years back to someone I knew via work who was Deputy Governor of HIS at the time. He seemed to think there wouldn't be an issue re the covenant if the club spoke to them. Unless the QC spoke to HIS, then they were just giving a legal opinion on the basis of what the covenant says.

[rodgers]

That's not really how he would go about his work, Steve.

Anyway, here is the document which is available on the Council website anyway:

http://meetings.derrycityandstrabanedis ... 0Legal.pdf

It deals mainly with the arrangements for the greyhound track.

[roger diesel]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/spor ... 57857.html

No mention of the Brandywell in this...

[stevebradley]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/spor ... 57857.html

No mention of the Brandywell in this...

She's clearly been dragging her feet on this until Casement got sorted/agreed, and now has very little time to do it.

6 months absolute max in which to get this money agreed and allocated, and if she puts a foot wrong on the process then there'll be legal challenges (as happened previously). Talk about cutting it fine.

[marcoloco]

Institute also looking for funding if they get the nod at Clooney Park West.

Lot of mouths to feed from that bowl. Hope there's enough to go around!

[stevebradley]

Institute also looking for funding if they get the nod at Clooney Park West.

Lot of mouths to feed from that bowl. Hope there's enough to go around!

I think they'd need planning permission in place to qualify for this funding, In which case they're still a long way off that.

[marcoloco]

That's a point Steve. Though I don't believe Institute want to stay any longer at the Brandywell than is necessary. Wouldn't be surprised if they run a planning application and funding bid concurrently, with the latter being subject to the delivery of the former.

[stevebradley]

That's a point Steve. Though I don't believe Institute want to stay any longer at the Brandywell than is necessary. Wouldn't be surprised if they run a planning application and funding bid concurrently, with the latter being subject to the delivery of the former.

They won't have the time unfortunately.

This funding will apparently be allocated in the next 6 months. Stute don't even have an agreed location for a stadium yet, and when they do they'll need an absoiute minimum of 3mths to secure planning permission - and almost certainly longer than that. So the process will be tied up before they can apply (that's if the Minister does as she says and delivers the funding in this mandate).